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Maybe my mother in law is right and I should just find a job in another state and we'll have two residences until my husband retires and can join me. I know I'm valuable elsewhere.
How does your husband feel about living separate for a while?
It doesn't sound like you're very happy and if your husband and you both agree that it's okay to live apart temporarily, visit back and forth, then maybe it's the right way to go.
If you get the right job, such as in teaching you have quite a bit of time off, engineering projects can be for certain periods with time off between projects and you could be flexible to take projects in different places if your homebase was still where you are right now.
rent the house your in to cover your bank note, and move somewhere more affordable; i.e WITHIN YOUR MEANS. My mom had to, and she has two degrees...now, she's working at Wal-Mart...
these are tough times. People like you, who think they are "worth" more than you they are, are the reason we are all in this situation. I mean, you obviously AREN'T "worth" more, or else you would get it.
SO, go ahead an refuse to work for $30K a year...someone else would gladly take that, and support their family and make it work.
I'm sorry that your daughter had to have surgery - that sucks.
But your attitude that somehow you're above working for a minimal amount doesn't endear me to you.
at all.
Can't rent it for enough to cover the payment, taxes and insurance. Unfortunately, my area has been hit very hard by foreclosures. Brokers are buying up houses and renting them cheap waiting for the market to turn. I'm competing with foreclosure listings if I try to sell and with brokers buying houses for half of what I owe on mine if I rent.
And before anyone jumps on me, I did not buy over my head. In fact, well under it (we approved for three times the house we bought). My income is now less than half of what it was 2 years ago with no hope of it increasing any time soon. It WAS a safe assumption I could either find a teaching job in a district where pay goes up quickly or another engineering job. Unfortunately, I now hold two degrees that pretty much guarantee unemployment in this state. Michigan doesn't need teachers or engineers. Nursing would have been a much better choice.
We bought this house 14 years ago and it's not worth what we paid for it today. If I sell at a foreclosure price, I can't even pay off the mortgage. While it's worth more than that, I can't sell it for that until the foreclosure fire sales stop. I have no choice but to sit tight until the foreclosures stop and prices start to rise again but it will be a slow rise. I know of four houses on my street where the owners are renting cheap just to have someone in them while they wait to sell because they've left the state for work. The only thing we did wrong is we refinanced 5 years ago to do some updates in preparation for selling (and no we did not max out the mortgage). Wish I could take that one back but who knew the market would crash the way it did? My house was worth twice what it is now 5 years ago. Now it's not worth what I paid for it 14 years ago.
Well, when I find another job, someone else can have my job. I'll gladly make the switch. Why do you think I should accept low pay? I don't get why you're arguing that I should just be happy being under paid? That's just stupid. Like everyone, I'll take what I can get, for now, but I'm looking for something better and I'll keep looking because I'm worth a lot more than I'm being paid now.
And no, somene isn't going to support their family on what I'm making. I've covered that. You can't save for retirement and college while putting a roof over your head, and save up a rainy day fund on what I make. Heck, I can't afford to replace my car if it breaks down. I have no idea where you get that $30K is a livable wage. It's not unless you're single and living in your mother's basement and in an area where you can use mass transit. Even an older car takes 20% of my income to keep on the road and that's before you buy gas. You can't support a family on this. Not and live anywhere you'd want to raise one. Sure there are the slums but I'll leave the state before that happens.
I'm worth more and I WILL get it. I've had multiple offers at over twice what I'm making in other states. All of them unsolicited. Just people who heard about me (my customers liked my work ;o)) My worst case is I leave Michigan, like many already have. If my husband's job were portable, we'd be gone already. Right now, it's a trade off between loss in his income to raise mine. Once he retires, his pension follows him so it won't matter where we live.
Last edited by Ivorytickler; 02-19-2009 at 06:34 AM..
How does your husband feel about living separate for a while?
It doesn't sound like you're very happy and if your husband and you both agree that it's okay to live apart temporarily, visit back and forth, then maybe it's the right way to go.
If you get the right job, such as in teaching you have quite a bit of time off, engineering projects can be for certain periods with time off between projects and you could be flexible to take projects in different places if your homebase was still where you are right now.
We are not hot on the idea of splitting states. We still have kids at home. The idea of not living with them does not appeal to me. And then there's that I'd have to make enough more to pay for housing where I was and still contribute what I do to the family finances so it's easier said than done. If I end up splitting states, and I may make that decision in another year or so if something doesn't break, I'll go for an engineering job. I've had offers at well over twice what I make now elsewhere. If I were single, I would have moved out of state a year ago.
Unfortunately, this climate makes it hard to do what teachers normally do in my position. Find a summer job that pays decent. If we weren't in a recession, I could work for a temp agency for $25/hr for the summer which would take the edge off of my low wages. While I know lots of people who need summer help, their companies aren't letting them hire it. I wish I knew which angle to play. One of my problems is I can go two ways which means I'm dividing my effort looking for a job. Maybe I need to blend both and find a company that needs a corporate trainer, lol.
Jeebus, Ivorytickler...you, like many, are in an unenviable position...
and the reason I was so critical, I guess, is that I have been out of work since December, and I would gladly take a $30K a year position and try to make it work.
I'm going to be getting a divorce and my daughter is in Michigan, while I'm in Missouri...stuck.
$30K a year, for me, would change a whole lot...now, I wouldn't buy a house with it, but I could surely rent one. The car I drive is past it's last leg; it is held together with baling wire and chewing gum...but I haven't lost hope.
I just hear people complain about how they have to lower their standards of living, and I get kind of offended - you know, it's like...you wouldn't want to be in MY position, so count your blessings.
Jeebus, Ivorytickler...you, like many, are in an unenviable position...
and the reason I was so critical, I guess, is that I have been out of work since December, and I would gladly take a $30K a year position and try to make it work.
I'm going to be getting a divorce and my daughter is in Michigan, while I'm in Missouri...stuck.
$30K a year, for me, would change a whole lot...now, I wouldn't buy a house with it, but I could surely rent one. The car I drive is past it's last leg; it is held together with baling wire and chewing gum...but I haven't lost hope.
I just hear people complain about how they have to lower their standards of living, and I get kind of offended - you know, it's like...you wouldn't want to be in MY position, so count your blessings.
I was out of work for 10 months before taking this position. I wouldn't be worried one iota if I'd found this job 3 months after being let go. Finding work that fast would be a sign that jobs are out there and, fairly, easy to find. I'm hoping that the only reason I only have the offers I did was that I came into the game so late (most hiring is done in April and I finished my student teaching and degree in May) so I have my fingers crossed for this year for finding a teaching position that, eventually, leads to a decent paycheck. (starting out low I have no issue with. I expected that but I never expected my starting wage to be my permanent wage as it is if I stay where I am).
You can have my job when I move on. You just need 2 masters degrees, secondary certification in three high demand subjects and 18 years of engineering experience. If you had all that would you really think $30k was great? I do, and I don't. Fortunately, I have options. I prefer not to exercise the ones that result in my leaving the state but another year of sucky wages and I'll high tailing it outta here. If Michigan doesn't want my talent, I'll peddle it elsewhere.
Before you get offended at complaints of lowering my standard of living, shouldn't you know what my standard of living is? I live in a modest home, drive older vehicles, rarely buy clothes, don't go out to eat, don't take fancy vacations, etc, etc, etc...My only real luxuries are cell phones, internet and cable. There's something wrong if I don't want to give the little I have up when I don't have to? It's one thing to accept a lesser lifestyle because you can't make a decent living. It's another to roll over, play dead and accept one when you don't have to. I have no idea why anyone is arguing that I should.
No, I should not be happy with $30K. If I thought that way, that is all I'd be worth. Personally, I wouldn't want to hire someone who didn't believe they were worth more. $30K is what you pay someone who is uneducated. It's about the pay for the high school drop outs who work in the stores my husband serves. It's not what you pay someone with two masters degrees. $30K works out to $15/hr for a 40 hour work week. As a teacher, I work more like 70. Do the math. I could do as well with two minimum wage jobs and have less of a headache and you think I should say YIPPEE, this is wonderful???
Nope. I'm going to find a job with a real paycheck but that's ok. That will leave my job open for you.
Last edited by Ivorytickler; 02-20-2009 at 12:13 PM..
no one person's sorrow is greater than another's in this economic crisis,if your in the middle class,or let me re-phrase that,work for a living,then your plight is the same as everyone else's who has been impacted.there is no larger or smaller crisis,it's a crisis period,a war so to speak,on the middle class to lower our standard's so other countries look higher.This has been in the works for quite a few years,and the one's who first started to make their voices heard,were called crackpots.Now hopefully they feel a little vindicated.Welcome to the hypocrisy of democracy,the normal standard we have allowed,yes we,not the chinese,or russians,just little ol' us,going home after a hard day of work,cracking open that 6 pack,flipping on the news,and nodding our heads that all will be well,not questioning once,things we heard were happening.Maybe we heard one of those horn blowers previously mentioned,and instead of taking a moment to listen,or get some extra info,again,back to the tv,6 pack,and laughing all the while at the crackpot.The moral of this story,if we wish to blame our economic crisis on anyone,we only need look in the mirror.
I was out of work for 10 months before taking this position. I wouldn't be worried one iota if I'd found this job 3 months after being let go. Finding work that fast would be a sign that jobs are out there and, fairly, easy to find. I'm hoping that the only reason I only have the offers I did was that I came into the game so late (most hiring is done in April and I finished my student teaching and degree in May) so I have my fingers crossed for this year for finding a teaching position that, eventually, leads to a decent paycheck. (starting out low I have no issue with. I expected that but I never expected my starting wage to be my permanent wage as it is if I stay where I am).
You can have my job when I move on. You just need 2 masters degrees, secondary certification in three high demand subjects and 18 years of engineering experience. If you had all that would you really think $30k was great? I do, and I don't. Fortunately, I have options. I prefer not to exercise the ones that result in my leaving the state but another year of sucky wages and I'll high tailing it outta here. If Michigan doesn't want my talent, I'll peddle it elsewhere.
Before you get offended at complaints of lowering my standard of living, shouldn't you know what my standard of living is? I live in a modest home, drive older vehicles, rarely buy clothes, don't go out to eat, don't take fancy vacations, etc, etc, etc...My only real luxuries are cell phones, internet and cable. There's something wrong if I don't want to give the little I have up when I don't have to? It's one thing to accept a lesser lifestyle because you can't make a decent living. It's another to roll over, play dead and accept one when you don't have to. I have no idea why anyone is arguing that I should.
No, I should not be happy with $30K. If I thought that way, that is all I'd be worth. Personally, I wouldn't want to hire someone who didn't believe they were worth more. $30K is what you pay someone who is uneducated. It's about the pay for the high school drop outs who work in the stores my husband serves. It's not what you pay someone with two masters degrees. $30K works out to $15/hr for a 40 hour work week. As a teacher, I work more like 70. Do the math. I could do as well with two minimum wage jobs and have less of a headache and you think I should say YIPPEE, this is wonderful???
Nope. I'm going to find a job with a real paycheck but that's ok. That will leave my job open for you.
Well, as someone who is NOT a high school dropout and who DOES have some college (but no degree), I understand where you're coming from...I'm just in survival mode at this point...
No, I should not be happy with $30K. If I thought that way, that is all I'd be worth. Personally, I wouldn't want to hire someone who didn't believe they were worth more. $30K is what you pay someone who is uneducated. It's about the pay for the high school drop outs who work in the stores my husband serves. It's not what you pay someone with two masters degrees. $30K works out to $15/hr for a 40 hour work week. As a teacher, I work more like 70. Do the math. I could do as well with two minimum wage jobs and have less of a headache and you think I should say YIPPEE, this is wonderful???
While I totally agree that someone with your education SHOULD earn more, the fact of the matter is that $30K is what a lot of jobs pay around here - the jobs that require degrees, that is. My husband makes about that much and his job technically requires a 4-year degree (he's still finishing up the degree but has 10+ years of experience). The first job he got when we moved back from TX also required a 4-year degree and it paid a whopping $12 an hour. My sister actually made LESS than $30K - with no benefits - for a job that required a bachelor's also. One of the two times my husband was unemployed for 6+ months here, he was offered a temp job that paid $10 an hour and I told him to hold out for something better, because surely something better was around the corner given his amount of education and experience...but it wasn't. He ended up having to take the next offer he got several months later, which paid even less: $8.50 an hour. What you're "worth" based on what your education and/or experience may be in no way correlates with what jobs actually pay around here.
I realize that you have even more education than a bachelor's and therefore it's totally reasonable to think that you should be able to earn more than that. But unfortunately it has become a reality that $30K is the wage for people WITH degrees around here, not the uneducated ones. I am in no way suggesting that you should settle for that, either - but you will almost definitely have to leave the state to find it, as it sounds like you already know.
While I totally agree that someone with your education SHOULD earn more, the fact of the matter is that $30K is what a lot of jobs pay around here - the jobs that require degrees, that is. My husband makes about that much and his job technically requires a 4-year degree (he's still finishing up the degree but has 10+ years of experience). The first job he got when we moved back from TX also required a 4-year degree and it paid a whopping $12 an hour. My sister actually made LESS than $30K - with no benefits - for a job that required a bachelor's also. One of the two times my husband was unemployed for 6+ months here, he was offered a temp job that paid $10 an hour and I told him to hold out for something better, because surely something better was around the corner given his amount of education and experience...but it wasn't. He ended up having to take the next offer he got several months later, which paid even less: $8.50 an hour. What you're "worth" based on what your education and/or experience may be in no way correlates with what jobs actually pay around here.
I realize that you have even more education than a bachelor's and therefore it's totally reasonable to think that you should be able to earn more than that. But unfortunately it has become a reality that $30K is the wage for people WITH degrees around here, not the uneducated ones. I am in no way suggesting that you should settle for that, either - but you will almost definitely have to leave the state to find it, as it sounds like you already know.
Depends on the degree. I'm not a liberal arts major. That's no more than a high school diploma a few decades ago. My degrees are in mathematics, chemical engineering and education. A low paying job for an engineer is in the 60's. Teachers with my education start in the 40's and top in the 80's. $30k is an insult and only worth working for until you find something better.
A bachelors degree isn't worth much more than a high school diploma was worth 25 years ago and that will get worse because we've dummied down education to the point anyone can get a bachelors degree and employers know it. The bad economy will make this worse as kids who didn't intend to go to college will now because they won't be able to find work so it will be further devalued. Which is probably why my last employer required a minimum of a masters degree.
You really have to watch what your degree is in. A liberal arts degree isn't much better than a high school diploma but $30K is quite possible wihout a degree at all. I can name a few dozen people who make that much some without high school diplomas. For a degreed person, I'd expect something in the 40's in short order. Possibly starting at lower pay but rising quickly. The true issue with my current job is I will NEVER get an actual raise. Not if I have 20 years experience. That is unacceptable.
Well, as someone who is NOT a high school dropout and who DOES have some college (but no degree), I understand where you're coming from...I'm just in survival mode at this point...
There's nothing wrong with that. As a general rule, it takes 2 months per $10K in salary you're looking for to find a job. So taking any job is better than nothing while you look for the real one. Which is why I'm working where I am. It beats subbing, it's experience and it comes with benefits. Lousy benefits but benefits. However, I'm gone as soon as someone offers me a real paycheck. I have no loyalty to a company that doesn't value me. I'll do my job. They'll get more than they pay for before I leave but leave I will.
I'm going to feel bad next year though. I have several students and parents asking that I teach an engineering series and AP courses next year because of my background. I can do that but I can't promise I'll finish the year and that will leave them in a lurch. They've made it impossible to stay though. I wish I could. There's so much I could do here but my first priority has to be earning a livable wage for my family. It's awkward when they talk to me about their big plans for my future with them when I know I won't be there long. Maybe another year.
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