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Old 02-06-2013, 07:33 PM
 
Location: west mich
5,739 posts, read 6,381,472 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ctyrider View Post
Why do conservatives feel the need to live among other conservatives? Would living amongst people with different political views be somehow detrimental to their worldview?

Not trying to be snarky, just genuinely curious.
It's sort of a cautious fortress mentality - "keeping the wagons circled". Desiring stability, predictability, territorial political power.
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Old 02-07-2013, 03:43 AM
 
Location: West Michigan
3,120 posts, read 6,005,686 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by detwahDJ View Post
It's sort of a cautious fortress mentality - "keeping the wagons circled". Desiring stability, predictability, territorial political power.
Yeah....

Except liberals do the same thing. Have you ever read the City vs. City or General U.S. forums? I think one of the MOST desired attributes in a city is for it to be "liberal". Liberals want to live with liberals. They are not interested in living around people with a variety of viewpoints any more than conservatives are.

Both sides of the aisle are equally closed-minded when it comes to this subject.
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Old 02-07-2013, 04:45 AM
 
Location: Macao
16,207 posts, read 39,523,483 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rapunzll View Post
Avoid SE MI altogether. Detroit was rated the most liberal city in the country recently. Pretty much anywhere else is fine.

I'm a conservative myself and I live in TC. There are liberals in the city itself, which is quite small, but the surrounding area is conservative.
Detroit isn't 'liberal'. African-Americans aren't 'liberal'. They vote Democratic, but that doesn't make them Liberal.

Liberals are mostly found out in cities like Seattle, Portland, San Francisco, etc. In Michigan, it would easily be Ann Arbor and than Traverse City.
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Old 02-07-2013, 12:50 PM
 
Location: Grand Rapids Metro
8,885 posts, read 18,564,317 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michigan83 View Post
Yeah....

Except liberals do the same thing. Have you ever read the City vs. City or General U.S. forums? I think one of the MOST desired attributes in a city is for it to be "liberal". Liberals want to live with liberals. They are not interested in living around people with a variety of viewpoints any more than conservatives are.

Both sides of the aisle are equally closed-minded when it comes to this subject.
It is interesting going back to the OP's original question (from 2007) and thinking about it more. It's true there are too many people who are perfectly happy looking for and living in a bubble of like-minded people. If the OP had asked that question today, I'd tell them to branch out and live a little.
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Old 02-07-2013, 02:52 PM
 
Location: west mich
5,739 posts, read 6,381,472 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michigan83 View Post
Yeah....

Except liberals do the same thing. Have you ever read the City vs. City or General U.S. forums? I think one of the MOST desired attributes in a city is for it to be "liberal". Liberals want to live with liberals. They are not interested in living around people with a variety of viewpoints any more than conservatives are.

Both sides of the aisle are equally closed-minded when it comes to this subject.
Not true, check a dictionary.
Liberals tend to like diversity so they might locate where diversity and tolerance exists. The liberal goal is not to force conformity on people, quite the opposite of staunchly conservative communities. That very point has always been the right-wing argument against liberals. Remember the despised "permissive liberal" - meaning "too much societal freedom and tolerance"? How soon they forget. That old "liberals-in-lockstep" canard is just a Fox talking point - and probable projecting.
Then too, the great liberal/conservative divide is greatly overblown - mostly by conservative media.
I don't see any part of Michigan as totally one or the other. It may be true in small communities where a controlling force can take hold, but this force will likely be conservative or right-wing in nature.

Last edited by detwahDJ; 02-07-2013 at 04:05 PM..
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Old 02-07-2013, 05:42 PM
 
104 posts, read 221,866 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiger Beer View Post
Detroit isn't 'liberal'. African-Americans aren't 'liberal'. They vote Democratic, but that doesn't make them Liberal.

Liberals are mostly found out in cities like Seattle, Portland, San Francisco, etc. In Michigan, it would easily be Ann Arbor and than Traverse City.
Blacks can be liberal, too.

I understand what you are saying though. It is true Detroit was rated the most liberal city in America but I think that specific study probably placed a heavier emphasis on economic factors like amount received in welfare. It's probably true that they aren't 'liberal' in the popular sense though since a lot of the blacks that moved North during the Great Migration undoubtedly brought along with them their social views which are going to be heavily influenced by Christianity.

I guess it's similar to how so-called conservatives vote for the Republican party in spite of the fact that it's been shown to be the case that Democrats don't necessarily put the nation any more in debt than do 'conservative' Republican politicians.

On the whole, 'liberal' blacks vote based on more than anything with their desire for a more egalitarian society (or at least something to live on), whether in the Mississippi or Michigan, and they see Democrats as more willing to offer that (remember the black community had traditionally voted for the Republican party prior to the New Deal); in some circles this might get you called out as a mooch, or a welfare queen, especially in an economically suffering majority black city like Detroit.

Detroit might not be a typical liberal, hippie paradise like San Francisco, but I do think that some in some ways Detroit is very liberal but also conservative. So, things like gay rights might not be the biggest issue, but it's still more or less 'liberal' IMO.
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Old 02-08-2013, 04:07 AM
 
Location: West Michigan
3,120 posts, read 6,005,686 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by detwahDJ View Post
Not true, check a dictionary.
Liberals tend to like diversity so they might locate where diversity and tolerance exists. The liberal goal is not to force conformity on people, quite the opposite of staunchly conservative communities. That very point has always been the right-wing argument against liberals. Remember the despised "permissive liberal" - meaning "too much societal freedom and tolerance"? How soon they forget. That old "liberals-in-lockstep" canard is just a Fox talking point - and probable projecting.
Then too, the great liberal/conservative divide is greatly overblown - mostly by conservative media.
I don't see any part of Michigan as totally one or the other. It may be true in small communities where a controlling force can take hold, but this force will likely be conservative or right-wing in nature.
Oh, come on, please save the lecture about checking a dictionary... I am fully aware of the attributes of liberal/progressive people. Yes, in theory (and usually in reality), liberals are more accepting of different lifestyles, viewpoints, etc. 'Tis a wonderful outlook on life.

But if you're trying to tell me that liberal people like living around/with conservative people and are open-minded and accepting towards conservative viewpoints, you have your head in the sand just as much as the typical Fox News diehard. Liberals want to live around other liberals. Sure, they are tolerant of different views and lifestyles... as long as the people with different views and lifestyles are, more or less, liberal.

I'm not even saying there's anything wrong with that. Conservatives do the same thing.

But if you can't admit that both sides do the same thing, you are just as blinded by ideology as the most extreme conservative.

Last edited by michigan83; 02-08-2013 at 04:46 AM..
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Old 02-08-2013, 06:59 AM
 
Location: Macao
16,207 posts, read 39,523,483 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MSwartz View Post
Blacks can be liberal, too.

I understand what you are saying though. It is true Detroit was rated the most liberal city in America but I think that specific study probably placed a heavier emphasis on economic factors like amount received in welfare. It's probably true that they aren't 'liberal' in the popular sense though since a lot of the blacks that moved North during the Great Migration undoubtedly brought along with them their social views which are going to be heavily influenced by Christianity.

I guess it's similar to how so-called conservatives vote for the Republican party in spite of the fact that it's been shown to be the case that Democrats don't necessarily put the nation any more in debt than do 'conservative' Republican politicians.

On the whole, 'liberal' blacks vote based on more than anything with their desire for a more egalitarian society (or at least something to live on), whether in the Mississippi or Michigan, and they see Democrats as more willing to offer that (remember the black community had traditionally voted for the Republican party prior to the New Deal); in some circles this might get you called out as a mooch, or a welfare queen, especially in an economically suffering majority black city like Detroit.

Detroit might not be a typical liberal, hippie paradise like San Francisco, but I do think that some in some ways Detroit is very liberal but also conservative. So, things like gay rights might not be the biggest issue, but it's still more or less 'liberal' IMO.
The Detroit is the most 'liberal' city is done by conservative think engines with an agenda. You'll ONLY find that said on right-wing conservative sources. You'll NEVER see that from a left-wing liberal source.

It's equivalent to the left saying that SOMALIA is the perfect LIBERTARIAN DREAM - guns galore, no laws, religious laws that punish gays and women, etc. Is it really true that Somalia is the ideal Republican Dream? No. It's political agenda. Detroit isn't the liberal utopia, and Somalia isn't the right-wings utopia.

The left-wings utopia are cities like Seattle, Portland, San Francisco, New York, Boston, Chicago, etc. Places with public transportation everywhere, a lot of education everywhere, an educated populace, etc.

I'm not exactly sure what a right-wing utopia city would look like. No public transportatation, lots of guns, etc. I guess?
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Old 02-08-2013, 08:33 AM
 
Location: Grand Rapids Metro
8,885 posts, read 18,564,317 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiger Beer View Post
The Detroit is the most 'liberal' city is done by conservative think engines with an agenda. You'll ONLY find that said on right-wing conservative sources. You'll NEVER see that from a left-wing liberal source.

It's equivalent to the left saying that SOMALIA is the perfect LIBERTARIAN DREAM - guns galore, no laws, religious laws that punish gays and women, etc. Is it really true that Somalia is the ideal Republican Dream? No. It's political agenda. Detroit isn't the liberal utopia, and Somalia isn't the right-wings utopia.

The left-wings utopia are cities like Seattle, Portland, San Francisco, New York, Boston, Chicago, etc. Places with public transportation everywhere, a lot of education everywhere, an educated populace, etc.

I'm not exactly sure what a right-wing utopia city would look like. No public transportatation, lots of guns, etc. I guess?
Salt Lake City is pretty close I've heard. 1/2 the downtown is owned by the Mormon Church, and the Mormon Tabernacle is their biggest tourist attraction (in the entire state of Utah I think). Although it has drawn a large gay population, and has one of the biggest gay pride parades in the country. And they have a nice light rail system. I find that transit and being liberal don't always go hand in hand, although a lot of libertarian conservative Republicans do not believe in publicly funded transportation services, which is probably where the stigma of Republican = no transit, Democrat = transit friendly comes from.

Blacks in large proportions are against gay marriage, way moreso than whites (the last I saw). Blacks do support more social services, which is more of a liberal ideology, frankly because more blacks live in urban impoverished areas where social services are used more. But Blacks are also highly religious, which throws them back in the religious conservative camp on pro-life issues.

I can show you about a dozen guys I know in the Lansing area (family and family friends) who are lifelong die-hard UAW members who would defend their homes to the death if you tried to take their guns away (hunting rifles mainly), and who also freely throw out the word queers for gay people and n**ger for black people. And they attend church every Sunday. So are they liberal Democrats, or conservative Republicans? Or just *******s.

The whole division of this country into political camps is merely just to win elections and keep the election war machine running, and keep people glued to their favorite media channels, which is a $multi-billion dollar a year industry.
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Old 02-08-2013, 09:32 AM
 
306 posts, read 758,440 times
Reputation: 169
^ SLC is overwhelmingly liberal and votes Democratic by a wide margin. They have several Gay elected officials and while Mormons tend to be conservative, there are plenty of socially liberal ones. Harry Reid is a perfect example. The rest of the state is the exact opposite of SLC. Its a very bizarre region. Nobody would ever think SLC is a liberal utopia but its pretty darn close. Its certainly much more liberal than Detroit is if you're looking to live a liberal lifestyle.

The only thing liberal about Detroit is that it votes 90% Democratic. A liberal lifestyle is clear in places like SLC, SF, NYC, etc. It really doesn't exist in places like Detroit. Ideology and lifestyle are two separate things and Detroit fails miserably in the lifestyle department.
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