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Old 02-08-2013, 01:33 PM
 
Location: west mich
5,739 posts, read 6,383,221 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magellan View Post
Salt Lake City is pretty close I've heard. 1/2 the downtown is owned by the Mormon Church, and the Mormon Tabernacle is their biggest tourist attraction (in the entire state of Utah I think). Although it has drawn a large gay population, and has one of the biggest gay pride parades in the country. And they have a nice light rail system. I find that transit and being liberal don't always go hand in hand, although a lot of libertarian conservative Republicans do not believe in publicly funded transportation services, which is probably where the stigma of Republican = no transit, Democrat = transit friendly comes from.

Blacks in large proportions are against gay marriage, way moreso than whites (the last I saw). Blacks do support more social services, which is more of a liberal ideology, frankly because more blacks live in urban impoverished areas where social services are used more. But Blacks are also highly religious, which throws them back in the religious conservative camp on pro-life issues.

I can show you about a dozen guys I know in the Lansing area (family and family friends) who are lifelong die-hard UAW members who would defend their homes to the death if you tried to take their guns away (hunting rifles mainly), and who also freely throw out the word queers for gay people and n**ger for black people. And they attend church every Sunday. So are they liberal Democrats, or conservative Republicans? Or just *******s.

The whole division of this country into political camps is merely just to win elections and keep the election war machine running, and keep people glued to their favorite media channels, which is a $multi-billion dollar a year industry.
The black church seems to be quite conservative.
When in Detroit, I asked a black musician why the Blues was not more popular there, he said "the black church doesn't approve of it".
A black religious organization attempted to clothe Detroit's naked statues.

So they have a moral vs economic dilemma when it comes to being "liberal" or "conservative" on issues.
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Old 02-08-2013, 06:37 PM
 
Location: Grand Rapids Metro
8,885 posts, read 18,567,848 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marty711 View Post
^ SLC is overwhelmingly liberal and votes Democratic by a wide margin. They have several Gay elected officials and while Mormons tend to be conservative, there are plenty of socially liberal ones. Harry Reid is a perfect example. The rest of the state is the exact opposite of SLC. Its a very bizarre region. Nobody would ever think SLC is a liberal utopia but its pretty darn close. Its certainly much more liberal than Detroit is if you're looking to live a liberal lifestyle.

The only thing liberal about Detroit is that it votes 90% Democratic. A liberal lifestyle is clear in places like SLC, SF, NYC, etc. It really doesn't exist in places like Detroit. Ideology and lifestyle are two separate things and Detroit fails miserably in the lifestyle department.
What would you consider a "liberal lifestyle?" Just curious.
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Old 02-08-2013, 10:11 PM
 
Location: Raleigh
1,257 posts, read 1,362,590 times
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Back to Michigan, briefly. What is the UP like?
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Old 02-09-2013, 03:46 PM
 
306 posts, read 758,606 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magellan View Post
What would you consider a "liberal lifestyle?" Just curious.
That list would be long but ill focus on a few things. I would include things like strong public transit, being gay friendly, having artistic and creative neighborhoods. Cycling and pedestrian friendly, foodie destinations, an emphasis on green living with pro restoration and smart growth policies. Certainly, metro Detroit has some areas that fit that criteria but the other places I mentioned do all of these things much better.
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Old 02-09-2013, 09:31 PM
 
Location: Macao
16,207 posts, read 39,532,731 times
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A liberal-minded city:

As a person who leans left (but I'm against gov't handouts - to corporations and to the perpetually unemployed). But I'd lean left in most other ways.

A liberal-minded city would be one which encourages tons of private enterprise (mom-n-pop businesses, small businesses, young people with creative ventures, on and on). Something to dilute the strengh of all the many corporate chains that otherwise dominate our eating out. It also keeps money locally. Think Seattle, Portland, New York, etc.

It would also have plenty of options to give alternative public transportation than 100% reliance on only the car. This would involve bike lanes, light-rail, subways, etc. Alternatives for people who don't want to be 100% car-oriented lifestyle. This is not only eco-friendly, but health-conscious. Think Portland, New York, Boston, DC, San Francisco, etc.

Inclusiveness to people of various backgrounds. This means if you are a gay Indian male, you won't be hated on, and just the same opportunity to start a business or live your life, fall in love, as anyone else. Think San Francisco, Seattle, Portland, New York, etc.

No big surprise how small little busineses like Microsoft, Starbucks, etc. started in 'liberal' environments like Seattle. Those enviroments create cultures that those types of ideas can flourish and thrive.

People who are liberal-minded from Michigan, who like that in their cities, usually go to Chicago, Portland, etc. There does seem to be some room for some creative enterprise now in Detroit within the last few years, but it would be a small small fraction of what you'd have available in 'liberal-minded' cities like SF, Seattle, Portland, NYC, Minneapolis, etc.

Last edited by Tiger Beer; 02-09-2013 at 09:48 PM..
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Old 02-09-2013, 09:54 PM
 
Location: Macao
16,207 posts, read 39,532,731 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by siameseifyoupls View Post
Back to Michigan, briefly. What is the UP like?
Tons of Norwegian blood up that way. Lots of beautiful nature. I don't really think they fit in either way on the political spectrum. I think they might be that generic Lutheran, similar to Minnesota, etc.

The only people I've ever met from there have been a few Ojibwe Native Americans, a metalhead (my previous college roommates), and I knew a girl who became a hippy after college and moved to the UP. She's in an alternative community of people who grow all their own organic foods, and make their own furnitures and cabins in the woods and such. That being said, I'm sure there are all kinds up there. Probably most are just regular smalltown folk, like anywhere else.
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Old 02-10-2013, 07:25 AM
 
Location: SE LA
54 posts, read 143,233 times
Reputation: 49
Why is FAUX NEWS and Michigan synonymous? Oh that's right - the entire state is conservative.

Detroit black churches don't "approve" of the blues? Where are those people from? Minnesota?
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Old 02-10-2013, 02:00 PM
 
7,358 posts, read 10,576,588 times
Reputation: 8887
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rawlings View Post
I'm looking to relocate with my family--wife and young children--to MI. We're evangelicals and active Republicans so we want a pretty conservative part of the state. But we also want the ammenities of the big city we're coming from. I've heard that Grand Rapids is a good bet...any other suggestions?
Livingston County is 30 minutes from Ann Arbor, 30 minutes from Lansing and 45 minutes from Detroit, and is ultra-conservative. You can't swing a baseball bat there without hitting an evangelical church.
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Old 02-10-2013, 07:48 PM
 
Location: Grand Rapids Metro
8,885 posts, read 18,567,848 times
Reputation: 3902
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiger Beer View Post
A liberal-minded city:

As a person who leans left (but I'm against gov't handouts - to corporations and to the perpetually unemployed). But I'd lean left in most other ways.

A liberal-minded city would be one which encourages tons of private enterprise (mom-n-pop businesses, small businesses, young people with creative ventures, on and on). Something to dilute the strengh of all the many corporate chains that otherwise dominate our eating out. It also keeps money locally. Think Seattle, Portland, New York, etc.

It would also have plenty of options to give alternative public transportation than 100% reliance on only the car. This would involve bike lanes, light-rail, subways, etc. Alternatives for people who don't want to be 100% car-oriented lifestyle. This is not only eco-friendly, but health-conscious. Think Portland, New York, Boston, DC, San Francisco, etc.

Inclusiveness to people of various backgrounds. This means if you are a gay Indian male, you won't be hated on, and just the same opportunity to start a business or live your life, fall in love, as anyone else. Think San Francisco, Seattle, Portland, New York, etc.

No big surprise how small little busineses like Microsoft, Starbucks, etc. started in 'liberal' environments like Seattle. Those enviroments create cultures that those types of ideas can flourish and thrive.

People who are liberal-minded from Michigan, who like that in their cities, usually go to Chicago, Portland, etc. There does seem to be some room for some creative enterprise now in Detroit within the last few years, but it would be a small small fraction of what you'd have available in 'liberal-minded' cities like SF, Seattle, Portland, NYC, Minneapolis, etc.
A lot of those things come in cities of a certain size though. Readily available transit of all kinds takes certain population size. Same with a diverse population. I actually wouldn't characterize Chicago as a "liberal" or "progressive" city.

I think cities that have a huge population of so-called "progressives" almost seem cultish about it. All I can say is "Put a bird on it."
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Old 02-11-2013, 10:20 PM
 
13 posts, read 15,513 times
Reputation: 17
I like living near good people, whether Liberal or Conservative. I live in a suburb of Wash DC (we may be moving to Michigan this summer, which I'll expand on in another post). My wife and I are both left of center, even far left on some things. However, my county here went 60-40 for Romney and probably bigger for Bush.

This is a heavy church community, made of Conservative people. I am a lefty, moral agnostic who cares a great deal for these people and have lasting friendships that I don't want to see end with an impending move, all despite the fact we have different political affiliations.

While we don't often talk politics, when we do it is done so on a basic, local level where I find we have far more common ground than the national parties would have us believe. On one hand me a Liberal doesn't want perpetual welfare for people and on the other hand my friends don't want to see the environment they love to hike or fish in wrecked at the behest of the corporate dollars. There are other issues that when you take off the edifice of politics I find we have even more common ground. We all want the same things for the most part.

The key is respect folks. I am the scheduler for a hockey league here and we used to typically have games on Sunday mornings. When I was put in control of the schedule, without being asked, I suggested that games on Sunday should start no earlier than 1PM. I did this out of respect for people. I didn't do this to make a religious statement, I did this so people who were religious could follow their path and still get their kids to hockey on time. My view was to help as many people as possible with no regard for my position on any issue or way of life.

If we stop treating each other like **** and quit calling each other names, maybe we can actually start being the country others envy, instead of just talking about it.
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