[xlabel]

This is what happens when we elect a bunch of lawyers and people whose only talent is helping themselves to other people's money to office. In future elections if they don't have a proven background in business, don't check the box.

[RememberMee]

Originally Posted by malamute

Why not? Cut taxes way back and businesses will thrive and grow, they'll hire more people, people can live with lower incomes if they have thousands of fewer tax dollars to give up. With more of their own money, people can spend more, go out to eat more, save more.

If that would be so, businesses would flock to wilderness areas and Somalia. Cutting taxes doesn't correlate straightforwardly with employment numbers (have past 8 years taught you something?). The bulk of tax savings goes into very few pockets, owners of means (and tax cuts) could be just in mood of hiring an extra gardener, buying a golden tub and ordering an extra prostitute on top of building a plant in China or hiding money in some kind of a tax shelter.

[Indentured Servant]

Originally Posted by junior 88 fan

That would be a good thing to do, but a certain party believes in taxes, increasing them and finding new avenues to fund thus requiring more taxes (SCHIP, Cap and Trade, NObama Care), so it has become a very distinctive pattern here. Smart people are fed up with it. How many dozens or major corporations in last last six years, have moved or BUILT new modern manufacturing facilities in TN, AL, AR, MS, GA, SC because of low or no tax abatements and those being right to work states??? No/low tax status, either permanent or for an agreed period of time + no forced upon UAW bloated rates = people going to work every day. Sounds pretty good to me. Tell us how many large companies want to come here, deal with this mess and have the potential to be penalized with increasing high taxes in order to fund the hole Jenny created? My guess would be zero (unless they get a secret deal). Shhh.

Yeah, well a certain party believes in taxes another party seems to believe in wars and military expenditures. If you could personally explain to me how a nation with an 11 trillion dollar debt, which is a 65trillion dollar debt when unfunded liabilities are factored in, in a 13 trillion dollar economy, can not DEFAULT without raising taxes I would certainly like to hear it. I am not sure that you fully appreciate the implications on our currency that results from these deficits (as well as FED rates). The Democrats have their thing and the Republicans have their thing.

My point is simply that we are DUE for a fall as a nation. I would even argue, OVERDUE. That is a GIVEN, in my opinion Thus, the role for the government and FED to play is not one of RECOVERY. There will be no recovery, as defined as a return to previous standards of living. Thus, the role of the government will have to play is one of RELIEF to mitigate the pain, plus, the role of managing the descent. If the descent is not properly managed, panic will make the dissent more abrupt, further and damaging. Both parties have a role to play in this. Given that we are in a capitalistic framework, Republican free market ideas are good, but their lack of social compassion in bad. You cannot have one without the other and you need to find the proper balance between both the needs of the economy and the social needs of the people during these times.

Democrats need their anti-free market tendencies checked and balanced and Republicans need their anti-social tendencies check and balanced. This is usually why the worst times for the nation follow the domination by a single party of the executive and legislative branches of government. If either party were allowed to rein for 20 years of both branches....it would be an utter disaster.

[Sparrow_temp]

I think both parties know that it's too late to do anything to stop the coming economic collapse so why even try. I believe the plan will be to simply devalue the currency to pennies on the dollar and in the mean time due whatever it takes to be reelected since there will be no real consequence. Rest assured though that Congress will raise their own pay to billions if necessary but all other government benefits will stay at their present value because they'll continue to tell us that there is no inflation.

[malamute]

Originally Posted by Sparrow_temp

I think both parties know that it's too late to do anything to stop the coming economic collapse so why even try. I believe the plan will be to simply devalue the currency to pennies on the dollar and in the mean time due whatever it takes to be reelected since there will be no real consequence. Rest assured though that Congress will raise their own pay to billions if necessary but all other government benefits will stay at their present value because they'll continue to tell us that there is no inflation.

You are probably right because it doesn't look like there is anyone in government even trying to do anything about this mess. They'll get what they can while they can.

[alliteration]

isn't that what all this is about? everyone needs to get theirs first, and everything/one is second. when i heard earlier this week that the average pay in the senate is 1.7 mil/yr it further reinforced my thought. the people in politics are so far out of touch with everything and everyone else, it wouldn't matter if the dollar was worth nothing and everyone lost their homes, they would all be doing just fine. like indentured servant said, we need someone who can brace us for relief and navigate this decline. it won't be the politicians who do it, they're the ones making this fall so damn painful for everyone. the economic woes were/are going to happen anyhow, but the last thing anyone needs is the government making everything worse. i've completely lost my faith in every single aspect of our political system, and i do believe that i have voted for the last time.

[junior 88 fan]

By not voting, we will be stuck with the socialistic mess like we have now in DC. Its time to vote into office, new blood at all levels. No more incumbents and this life long politician crap. New, fresh ideas and not the ancient "I know what's best for you", mentality like we have now. How about term limits? We know that won't happen because they will not vote on it in senate. The Levin's, Stabby and Greenholm need to go now for starters. One could probably start a long list, on this topic, of others also who need to go. How long can you go not doing your job, before you get fired???

[nicet4]

I posted this elsewhere but when I saw this Michigan thread I decided to copy and paste.

Other than the northern part of Michigan having some of the best scenery in the country I can't think of anything good to say about the state.

It's been a number of years now but once I tried to expand a business into the state only to be convinced the state government had to have a "Department of Business Prevention" whose mission it was to discourage business from expanding into the state. It was horrible experience and the state motto should be changed to "The BOHICA State" for "Bend Over Here It Comes Again State".

Michigan deserves all the bad times they have. They deserved the higher than heck tax rate, the fees, the fines and the countless (and I mean countless) other taxes that worked to drain the life blood from any busienss. Placing the state in very last position as a state to do business in is is something the bureaucrats worked very hard. I got to give credit where credit is due, they did a great job. on this.

Tell you what, over the years I have applied for and gained licenses to do business in Indiana, Ohio, Kentucky, North Carolina, South Carolina, Alabama, Georgia, Florida, Nebraska, Montana, Arkansas and Alaska and the problems getting licensed in Michigan DWARFED the trouble with getting a license in all the other states mentioned combined. I ended giving up it just wasn't worth the hassle. Looking to expand a business I was treated worse than a common criminal by a bureacracy that makes the bureacracy of Louisiana look sweet.

And then there is Detroit. A true toilet bowl when it comes to trying to do business and the clowns in charge don't have a clue as to why business has been fleeing for 25 years and nobody but nobody wants to locate in the BOHICA State and even less in Detroit? It's a sewer of graft, corruption and from here my opinion of the business climate goes downhill and fast.

I would rather do business anywhere but Michigan and I mean literally that. Michigan ranks #51 out of the 50 states.

What Michigan needs to do is can at least 75% of the state bureaucrats but that will never happen as government is about the only employer left. Also consider Michigan government has worked hard to insure a 50% future unemployment rate and in my opinion any organization that has worked as hard as they have should get what they strive for.

After my experience I would rather open a business in Zimbabwe.

That all said my advice to people there would be to move and move now because it will never get better.