Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
...or we could just comment on what we find to be positive about the area he is bashing. Because that is HIS take on it. That's the beauty. Different strokes. You don't like it, say what you don't like (because I personally find both sides interesting)and then move on. Let's face it, you can find negatives and positives about anywhere and if I were looking, I would want to be aware of both sides.
When I was researching my move to Vegas, WOW! talk about some bashers! It is the same over there on that forum! The only difference is that it wasn't a civil war, (north vs. south in the SAME state) but there were definitely people who HATED it there and see it as the scourge of the US! But, I welcomed both sides and was glad to hear the neg and the pos. It helped me choose where to go (had to go for economic reasons plus it helped that I like that kind of weather)and where to avoid according to what I needed.
So, my point is just that I think most who come and do research rather expect to hear the good and the bad from people who love it to people who hate it and why. But, to continue bashing each other and say that one part of the state is inferior to the other is just ridiculous and makes MI people, on the whole, look very un-united. Which could have a lot to do with our current state of affairs and will continue to until this state can figure out how to get along with our different tastes and accept them.
I say, "COME ON MICHIGAN---UNITE FOR THE COMMON GOOD!!" Whether you love the north and hate the south or vice-versa...we are one state!!!! (maybe I should run for office!! lol!!!)
You are right, this thread makes our state look bad. I think this thread has exposed the deep divisions between the Detroit area and the rest of the state. Whether you are in the thumb, Northern Michigan, Grand Rapids or the saginaw valley you will find a negative view of Detroit and SE Michigan. I think many of us in the rest of Michigan are angry about the damage done to our states reputation by Detroit, state funds drained by Detroit and the outright crime and corruption that is so prevalant in that city. Im sure the people of SE Michigan are tired of hearing about us complaining about them and blaming the states problems on them. I think the battle lines are drawn, and both sides have dug in. These negative attitudes took decades to develope in this state, I dont think they are going to go away overnight. I wish we could unite for the common good, as we all know the deck is already stacked against our state and the infighting is not helping. The 2010 govenors race will bring it all out again, as usuall the SE will likely be for the pro union democrat, pushing for big labor and more social programs. The rest of Michigan will support the right wing conservative, pro gun, smaller goverment and traditional values. Like I said, the lines are drawn. We are almost like two states, one that is southeast Mi(everything east of us23, south of I69) and then the rest of the state. How do we bridge this divide?
You are right, this thread makes our state look bad. I think this thread has exposed the deep divisions between the Detroit area and the rest of the state. Whether you are in the thumb, Northern Michigan, Grand Rapids or the saginaw valley you will find a negative view of Detroit and SE Michigan. I think many of us in the rest of Michigan are angry about the damage done to our states reputation by Detroit, state funds drained by Detroit and the outright crime and corruption that is so prevalant in that city. Im sure the people of SE Michigan are tired of hearing about us complaining about them and blaming the states problems on them. I think the battle lines are drawn, and both sides have dug in. These negative attitudes took decades to develope in this state, I dont think they are going to go away overnight. I wish we could unite for the common good, as we all know the deck is already stacked against our state and the infighting is not helping. The 2010 govenors race will bring it all out again, as usuall the SE will likely be for the pro union democrat, pushing for big labor and more social programs. The rest of Michigan will support the right wing conservative, pro gun, smaller goverment and traditional values. Like I said, the lines are drawn. We are almost like two states, one that is southeast Mi(everything east of us23, south of I69) and then the rest of the state. How do we bridge this divide?
A good place to start is to get people to stop playing the Blame Game. Everyone in MI 18 and over has a right to vote. Get out there and do it! Since it was been stated here by another poster that Detroit is "shrinking", maybe the north could have a louder voice in that decision making.
Trust me when I say, people in SE MI are hurting too. Big time. Losing homes, jobs, families splitting because of having to move...and a lot of them are struggling paycheck to paycheck. Heck, if your Walmart is hiring in Gaylord, you are lucky. I don't think they are here and if so, the line to apply is miles long. I NEVER hear anyone dogging the north. (except here) At least not in the circles I run. Everyone I talk to is just concerned about the economy and how MI will ever bounce back.
I don't really hear any comments about how the people in the SE are tired of hearing the north complain, I don't even think a lot of people know that they do. But, when the bigger cities in MI hurt, it hurts the cities that rely on tourism dollars. So, we all need this to work for everyone in MI and I certainly hope we can some good people in office to change the current climate of MI (and I am not talking winter...although....)
You are right, this thread makes our state look bad. I think this thread has exposed the deep divisions between the Detroit area and the rest of the state. Whether you are in the thumb, Northern Michigan, Grand Rapids or the saginaw valley you will find a negative view of Detroit and SE Michigan. I think many of us in the rest of Michigan are angry about the damage done to our states reputation by Detroit, state funds drained by Detroit and the outright crime and corruption that is so prevalant in that city. Im sure the people of SE Michigan are tired of hearing about us complaining about them and blaming the states problems on them. I think the battle lines are drawn, and both sides have dug in. These negative attitudes took decades to develope in this state, I dont think they are going to go away overnight. I wish we could unite for the common good, as we all know the deck is already stacked against our state and the infighting is not helping. The 2010 govenors race will bring it all out again, as usuall the SE will likely be for the pro union democrat, pushing for big labor and more social programs. The rest of Michigan will support the right wing conservative, pro gun, smaller goverment and traditional values.Like I said, the lines are drawn. We are almost like two states, one that is southeast Mi(everything east of us23, south of I69) and then the rest of the state. How do we bridge this divide?
The part of your post that I highlighted in bold is nothing more than a sweeping generalization and, as such, a total lie. I live in SE Michigan, and I am a right wing Christian who votes for whomever has the most conservative social platform, which, needless to say, is not the party of Barack Obama. I am not Detroit, I don't agree with the vast majority of the people in Detroit politically, and I have worked hard all of my life to have what I have. And guess what, most of my friends and family vote the same way that I do and share my values. AND, they live in your unfactually surveyed little triangle. If you had said what you did above about the city of Detroit itself, you would have been correct. But when you include the rest of a large chunk of SE Michigan, including many rural and suburban areas, you lose your credibility entirely. Have you ever visited any of the upscale suburbs of Detroit (and they are many) and actually asked the people there how they vote? Guess what? The vast majority vote just like you do. So do many of us in the outlying, rural areas such as Monroe Co., Livingston Co., Macomb Co., Oakland Co., etc. You don't even know this area at all, because if you did you wouldn't continue to lie about those of us who live here, so please stick to applying your stereotype to the city of Detroit itself instead of trying to include a bunch of surrounding suburbs and counties within your little triangle that idealogically and economically are more like where you live than the city of Detroit. Do some research before you paint all of us with the same brush.
BTW, I know it flies in the face of what you say in your post, but consider that the other large, urban areas in Michigan always vote the same way that Detroit does, and they don't seem to be inside your little triangle of doom. John McCain didn't concede Michigan long before the election took place just because of Detroit, because if he had, he would have also given up on Illinois based on Chicago, New York based on NYC, and California based on LA and San Francisco, just to name a few examples. The Democratic union mindset exists in many parts of Michigan, not just in the Detroit area. In fact, I found a political map of Michigan for the 2008 Presidential election. I must warn you though, before you look at it, that it totally disproves what you say in your post.
Hmm...lot of blue counties nowhere near Detroit, even in the UP, of all places...hmm...how could that have happened, when the rest of Michigan is so soundly different politically from Detroit?
Last edited by canudigit; 02-25-2010 at 04:11 AM..
If you want to make tons of money, follow the herd to Texas or New York or Phoenix or any of the other jam-packed big city "boomtown" crapholes. You won't make six figures in Northern Michigan, and good luck finding a job in Detroit right now.
Gaylord (yes, it IS pronounced Gaylurd) is a great town. People move there for the quality of life, not the opportunity to make a lot of money. If you value money, Northern MI is not your place. If you enjoy a slow-paced, Northern way of life with friendly people in a beautiful setting, then head for northern MI.
With all of that said, I'm not saying that Northern MI has a great economy. It certainly doesn't. 24% unemployment is nothing to rave about. I'd be on my way to the UP or far northern LP if I could find a job. I love small towns and the lifestyle of Northern Michigan and the rest of the Upper Midwest. North Dakota is as close as I can get and still be employed, so I'm going there. I could find work in Chicago or NWI, but then I would go insane. Michigan will always be my home, and I'm proud to support it.
I didn't bother to read all of the other posts in here, but I completely agree with the second paragraph of this posting- we lived in Gaylord (Gaylurd...lol, it's true, that's how it's pronounced) for the entire winter last year, when the snow was just..unreal- we lived on Otsego Lake, and I would like to give my opinion about the place:
It is unbelievably beautiful there, the fall was like nothing I've ever seen, and the peacefulness and serenity was just truly incomparable. The people were so friendly, and willing to help, very "small town atmosphere" without the clique-ishness you find in so many small towns, that don't welcome "outsiders"- I agree that if you are looking for "nightlife, etc. etc.", you won't find it there- and if you are looking for a well-paying job, you won't find that there, either- or, to my knowledge, anywhere close by, even Traverse City or Alpena. But if you want a slower-paced life, with friendly people, and things that money can't buy, I can't recommend it enough. We froze our behinds off last winter, but I would go back in a heartbeat if I could, and eventually, we plan on settling there permanently. At this time, we are "stuck" in Omaha, NE- simply because the unemployment rate is so low, and, well, we had to have jobs. The best jobs to have in N. MI would be telecommuting jobs, which we are certainly working on, until the economy picks up a bit-
I really miss it there, and I've been a few places- originally having been from California, I never thought I would find a place that felt like "home", but Gaylord is truly "it".
It's just unbelievable to me that discussing the truth about the economy is bashing the state. Maybe the state's problem is the backward thinking that the economy will work itself and discussion of it is bashing.
It's just unbelievable to me that discussing the truth about the economy is bashing the state. Maybe the state's problem is the backward thinking that the economy will work itself and discussion of it is bashing.
We may be down but we are not out. We are not finished by a long shot.
The part of your post that I highlighted in bold is nothing more than a sweeping generalization and, as such, a total lie. I live in SE Michigan, and I am a right wing Christian who votes for whomever has the most conservative social platform, which, needless to say, is not the party of Barack Obama. I am not Detroit, I don't agree with the vast majority of the people in Detroit politically, and I have worked hard all of my life to have what I have. And guess what, most of my friends and family vote the same way that I do and share my values. AND, they live in your unfactually surveyed little triangle. If you had said what you did above about the city of Detroit itself, you would have been correct. But when you include the rest of a large chunk of SE Michigan, including many rural and suburban areas, you lose your credibility entirely. Have you ever visited any of the upscale suburbs of Detroit (and they are many) and actually asked the people there how they vote? Guess what? The vast majority vote just like you do. So do many of us in the outlying, rural areas such as Monroe Co., Livingston Co., Macomb Co., Oakland Co., etc. You don't even know this area at all, because if you did you wouldn't continue to lie about those of us who live here, so please stick to applying your stereotype to the city of Detroit itself instead of trying to include a bunch of surrounding suburbs and counties within your little triangle that idealogically and economically are more like where you live than the city of Detroit. Do some research before you paint all of us with the same brush.
BTW, I know it flies in the face of what you say in your post, but consider that the other large, urban areas in Michigan always vote the same way that Detroit does, and they don't seem to be inside your little triangle of doom. John McCain didn't concede Michigan long before the election took place just because of Detroit, because if he had, he would have also given up on Illinois based on Chicago, New York based on NYC, and California based on LA and San Francisco, just to name a few examples. The Democratic union mindset exists in many parts of Michigan, not just in the Detroit area. In fact, I found a political map of Michigan for the 2008 Presidential election. I must warn you though, before you look at it, that it totally disproves what you say in your post.
Hmm...lot of blue counties nowhere near Detroit, even in the UP, of all places...hmm...how could that have happened, when the rest of Michigan is so soundly different politically from Detroit?
I can tell your one of those people who believe all generalizations and stereotypes are automatically wrong. Why is it you think that so many people in outlying areas of Michigan have the views of southeast Michigan they do??? Im sure all of that is wrong because its a "generalization" Give me a break, people in SE mi do tend to be more liberal/progressive. People in SE mi do tend to be more focused on accumulation of money and status. Almost all the negative things said about Detroit are most definately true. This does not mean that everyone fits the generalizations, but obviously these things have been noticed about SE Mi for years or the generalizations would not exist. You insist that I dont know a thing about SE Mi, well you are plain wrong. I family that lives in those upscale suburbs you talk about, and I have spent plenty of time in places like Novi, Livonia and Brighton and Howell. My grandparents lived Detroit proper, and they were too stubborn to give up thier house to the bums taking over. There are two extremes in the SE, ghetto and the upscale with not much in between. I have noticed that in a town like Novi the value of a person is measured by what you do for a living. You display your status with fancy cars and a big house. Clothing, housing and restaurants cost much more there than they do where I live. They spend all that extra money they make at their big shot job on more expensive housing and clothing. I know you are going to say Im painting with a broad brush again but these are the things I noticed about the area as an outsider. I work with a lady that moved to my town from SE Mi for her husband and she hates it, cannot adjust to the difference in values, thinks many of the people are of less quality. She cannot slow down and she cannot see any value in people who do not have good jobs and lots of money. I am not saying that people in SE Mi are bad people, unfriendly people or anything like that. In fact Ive met some really nice people there, but you would be ignoring reality if you do not see the difference. As far as my definition of what is SE Mi that you obviously hate, I beleive it is fairly accurate. The more urban/suburban built up areas begin within that area I defined. Are there pockets of rural areas in that triangle, yes there are. However most areas inside that triangle are either fully urban, or peppered with strip malls and subdivisions. I will acknowlege that I69 is a little too far north especially in the Lapeer-Port Huron corridor, but I wanted to make sure Flint proper was included. Also suburbanized areas stretch further west than 23, in some areas all the way toward howell. I also beleive that when you enter the I69, US23 triangle you definately begin to notice not only more people, but the attitudes and values that I have talked about. I cant believe you cannot see the differences between people in different parts of the state, but if you doubt it spend a weekend in a place like Caro, Ithica, Oscoda, Bad Axe, Owosso, Greenville, Wolverine and then tell me that there is no difference.
You don't know anything about the Detroit area. WTF do you mean there isn't much inbetween? What about the middle class cities like Warren, Sterling Heights, St Clair Shores, Harper Woods, Fraser, Clinton Township, Roseville, Eastpointe, Center Line, Utica etc and that's just the east side.
You want to know how much I paid for my house? $28,500. Brighton and Howell aren't really metro Detroit. That's getting pretty far out of the area. I also by my clothes at The Men's Warehouse and own a 98 Grand Am.
You don't know anything about the Detroit area. WTF do you mean there isn't much inbetween? What about the middle class cities like Warren, Sterling Heights, St Clair Shores, Harper Woods, Fraser, Clinton Township, Roseville, Eastpointe, Center Line, Utica etc and that's just the east side.
You want to know how much I paid for my house? $28,500. Brighton and Howell aren't really metro Detroit. That's getting pretty far out of the area. I also by my clothes at The Men's Warehouse and own a 98 Grand Am.
Good for you scolls, then your one of those exeptions I talked about. And I have never spent much time in eastern detroit, so I wont comment on it. Most of my experience is with the western side. From what ive heard from people who live down there, the east west divide is kinda a big thing in the detroit area.
Good for you scolls, then your one of those exeptions I talked about. And I have never spent much time in eastern detroit, so I wont comment on it. Most of my experience is with the western side. From what ive heard from people who live down there, the east west divide is kinda a big thing in the detroit area.
There's also middle class cities in Oakland county like Hazel Park, Madison Heights, Ferndale, Royal Oak, Southfield, Auburn Hills, Clawson, Oak Park etc. Do you want me to start with Wayne County now? You're clearly clueless of the area. I didn't even include some upper middle class cities like Troy or Rochester. No, the east/west thing is not a big deal. You're the first one I've seen to even suggest it.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
)
If you had said what you did above about the city of Detroit itself, you would have been correct. But when you include the rest of a large chunk of SE Michigan, including many rural and suburban areas, you lose your credibility entirely. Have you ever visited any of the upscale suburbs of Detroit (and they are many) and actually asked the people there how they vote? Guess what? The vast majority vote just like you do. So do many of us in the outlying, rural areas such as Monroe Co., Livingston Co., Macomb Co., Oakland Co., etc. You don't even know this area at all, because if you did you wouldn't continue to lie about those of us who live here, so please stick to applying your stereotype to the city of Detroit itself instead of trying to include a bunch of surrounding suburbs and counties within your little triangle that idealogically and economically are more like where you live than the city of Detroit. Do some research before you paint all of us with the same brush.
