[michmoldman]

Originally Posted by Giesela

Millions of jobs lost, many may never return - Stocks & economy- msnbc.com

Everyone is going to struggle unless they get innovative. Can the mindset of your typical 3rd generation factory rat or do that? I have my doubts but I hope so.

Many cant...too lazy, but many can...if they want. The mind is an amazing tool..in the right person.

[actinic]

For all those who want to keep their hands clean give me one business MI can run with that:

(a) is profitable
(b) requires no tax subsidy
(c) can do it better than other states or countries

[Bhaalspawn]

Originally Posted by Giesela

We are dead center at the heart of the western world problem - manufacturing has moved to the third world.

With respect to Michigan, however, it's also moved or rather been developed in the Southeast. I wholeheartedly agree that global labor arbitrage is a huge problem that has affected the entire country, but we need to ask why businesses have chosen to locate their facilities in other states.

That's not going to change for Michigan or anyone. If you want to just quit school and get a factory job like your grandparents did guess what its not happening - not here NOT ANYWHERE. I don't see that as Granholms fault and people who keep throwing spears at her like if she just went away it would all get better are just stupid. Who's in office barely matters - look at other states, hell countries, in the same boat.

I agree. This mess isn't really Granholm's fault. She doesn't make the nation's international trade policy.

Unfortunately, going to college isn't going to solve people's employment problem because we don't have enough jobs for people with college degrees. (In fact, there may even be a study performed by an economist (Richard Vedder) which shows that spending money on education actually slows economic growth.) Also, most jobs that "require" a college degree don't actually make any direct use (they don't really require it) of those degrees. Employers just use having a college degree as a proxy for intelligence and a sense of responsibility. Many of the exact same jobs that require a bachelors degree today were filled by people with mere high school diplomas in the past who learned on the job.

[Bhaalspawn]

Originally Posted by Giesela

Millions of jobs lost, many may never return - Stocks & economy- msnbc.com

Everyone is going to struggle unless they get innovative. Can the mindset of your typical 3rd generation factory rat or do that? I have my doubts but I hope so.

This is another common myth--that innovation can save us. There are three (four?) flaws that come to mind with this argument.

(1.) The notion that only Americans can engage in innovation is essentially racist and false. There's no reason to believe that people in India and China cannot engage in innovation for less compensation. They have scientists and engineers in those countries. Also, since the actual production has moved to China, Chinese engineers will be closer to the site of production and thus thus have more reasons to be innovative in the area of manufacturing. Other nations, such as Japan and Korea, are already engaging in "innovation".

(2.) Even if an American invents "Next Big Thing" technology, there isn't any reason why the jobs created by that technology will stay in the United States when they could be performed for less money in Mexico, India, and China. If a new widget is invented, it will probably get manufactured abroad.

(3.) Not all Americans can be or have the intellectual capacity to be innovative. Would it even be possible to support a nation of 300+ million people merely with innovation alone? "Innovation" as an industry could perhaps support 5% of the population at best, working as scientists and engineers. (Heck, we already have a huge oversupply of PhD. scientists already.)

(4. ?) I just thought of this one. Another problem is that intellectual property protection may not be as well protected overseas. That innovative idea you thought of for a new drug that you were hoping to patent and sell around the world? It turns out that your patent doesn't mean diddly in China where generics are being produced and sold for five cents per pill.

So what is the solution? The solution is that we are going to have to get our manufacturing jobs back and then boot foreign workers (H-1B and L-1 visa holders and illegals) out of the U.S. This means that we need to raise tariffs, end the H-1B and L-1 visa programs, and end mass immigration. In other words, we need to put an end to Global Labor Arbitrage and stop the merger of the American labor market and standard of living with that of the third world.

[intelfan11315]

That's what happens when you elect a Canadian to do an American's job.

[darstar]

Originally Posted by burgler09

That's what happens when you elect a Canadian to do an American's job.

Stupid ,ignorant statement, has no real meaning or substance.

[Mi. Red Wing]

Originally Posted by michigan83

Not a surprise at all.

Being a Union stronghold is a huge negative. Also, Jennifer Granholm is about as clueless about economics as someone in her position could possibly be.

I still remember a time when she said something to the effect of "we need to tax businesses more so that the burden doesn't fall to the people." Really, Jenny? How much of a burden is for the "people" when they can't find jobs because the businesses have left? What do you think businesses do when they pay higher taxes than in other states? They charge the "people" more. Or they set up shop elsewhere. Good grief.

I agree! Thanks Jenny, we're blown away! Now you can go back to Canada.

[Giesela]

When I used the word "innovative" I mean it a large broad sense not the small create a new widget sense.
You can't get manufacturing jobs back because people of the United States and other western countries won't work for pennies. So the price of the commodity goes up and no one will buy it. So the company folds or moves overseas. Booting foreign workers will have no impact on this whatsoever.
Companies that still manufacture here struggle and struggle and their goods cost more. That's why its hard to find goods made here.
Hey if you want your kids to work in a factory and make almost nothing with no benefits proceed with your plan.

[actinic]

Manufacturing is and will come back. Out standard of living is declining while other countries are increasing. This puts us in a much more competitive position.

[1coolcustomer]

Originally Posted by actinic

Manufacturing is and will come back. Out standard of living is declining while other countries are increasing. This puts us in a much more competitive position.

I agree. There's going to come a time when Joe Lunchbucket in China will want to replace the bicycle and rickshaw with a Camry or a Focus and a 600 ft straw hut with 1700 sq footer with vaulted ceilings and then the pendulum will swing back our way, after all, greed is human nature.