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Old 07-12-2012, 09:41 PM
 
Location: vagabond
2,631 posts, read 5,447,341 times
Reputation: 1314

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Hey CD crew. I'm interested in becoming an officer in the U.S. military. Specifically, I want to fly, but there are other jobs that I am interested in as well, such as intel, media, and maybe a few others.

This will be long, so I want to say thanks in advance to those of you that actually read through all of this and offer your two cents. It'll definitely be worth more than two cents to me.

I wasn't going to write about this here on CD. I was just going to do it all quietly by myself because for some reason I feel a bit sheepish admitting that I might do this––but I would be doing myself a disservice if I didn't utilize the broad level of experience and knowledge that you guys in this forum have.

I am a prior service USMC infantry rifleman that has been out of the corps now for four and a half years in order to put my G.I. Bill to good use. But I am almost done (have earned a BS in digital media, and am finishing a BFA in illustration), and I find myself wanting to get back in.

As an aside, returning to the military is only one of the options that I am seriously pursuing. I am also applying for federal law enforcement and similar jobs, as well as animation and concept art studio jobs. I realize that this is a fairly broad net to be casting, but I feel confident in my position and abilities, and could go whichever way seems to me to be the best fit for myself and my family. The tentative goal is to work full-time in something military or law enforcement-related, and illustrate and animate in my own time in order to build up the experience and portfolio needed to get an art director or similar job somewhere when I retire.

My Credentials:
Spoiler

Citizenship: Born and raised in Utah.

Age: 32 years old (I am prior service though, for any applicable waiver purposes). I know that for USMC aviation, commissioning is supposed to take place before your 28th birthday, but with prior service, I am unsure as to whether that means before your 32nd birthday with four years of service, or just any time before age 33, or if that is even waiverable.

College and Tests: Bachelor of Science in Digital Media (unofficial focus on animation); soon to complete a Bachelor of Fine Arts in Visual Arts (focus on illustration); GPA: 3.32; ASVAB Score: 96; NPOST Score (for national law enforcement): 97

Physical: I am very durable and pretty healthy, but I am old(ish) and have beat the hell out of my joints (knees, back, wrists and ankles in particular) through the infantry, firefighting, and a fairly active outdoor lifestyle. This means that I can still keep up pretty much always, but I feel it more than the younger guys (I'm pretty sure that a lot of you can relate).

I am a bit out of shape after four years of pretty intense double majoring, but I am getting back in shape. As far as USMC PT is concerned, I am running the three-mile in 21:45, but will be faster by Fall (probably 19-minute or maybe even 18-minute range); I can easily do 100 crunches in two minutes; and I am back up to 11 pull-ups currently, though I expect to be back up to at least 15 or so by Fall, and the goal is to get to 20 for full points. I'm only vaguely aware of the PT standards of the other branches, but I do 100 push-ups almost every night (I can do 30-40 at a time, though that too is increasing); and can bike ride pretty quick and pretty far when my knees aren't acting up.

I have better than 20/20 vision (20/15 or so), though I have light sensitivity and slightly diminished night vision issues from an IED blast in Iraq in 2007; note that I can tell that my vision has suffered, but the VA still says that my vision is above average, so they won't take a look at them. I do get some disability for knee and back problems, and PTSD issues, but I can usually ignore the knee problems; and I have been doing physical therapy on my back through the VA and am confident that it can still handle anything I throw at it so long as I am careful (I am working as a wildland firefighter, for instance, which is almost as physically demanding as anything I ever did in the infantry); and have more or less beat the PTSD issues (still have rage issues and marital issues that are tied to Iraq, but I am managing them).

Security: I possessed a Secret clearance for the USMC back when I was active duty, and currently firefight for my local county sheriff's office, and can usually pass background checks without breaking a sweat. No arrests or charges; only one traffic ticket back in 2002 or so.

Family: I have a wife and three kids, the youngest with down syndrome. My wife is not so thrilled with the idea of getting back into the military (never liked the fanatical culture or the restrictions on health care), but she isn't opposed, and I have explained to her that the Marine Corps infantry culture is very different than the rest of the military, especially the air wings.

Prior Service: I served for four years in the active duty USMC infantry. I first served for two years in security forces, stationed at MCSFCo Kings Bay, GA (receiving the Secret clearance there), and then for just under two years with 3/6 Lima Co in Camp Lejeune, NC, deploying to Iraq in a combat capacity in 2007.

With 3/6 L, I served as a fire team leader, convoy vehicle commander, company armory custodian, company intel watch, and other various roles.

I left the Marine Corps as a Corporal (E-4), with no disciplinary problems, and a good conduct medal to prove it.


My Interests (more or less in order):
Spoiler

Me in a Nutshell: I am an outdoorsy, artistic, nerdy guy. I love hiking and rock climbing, camping, fishing, mountain biking (when my knees don't protest), and pretty much all other outdoor sports. As far as art and media go, I love painting, photography, sketching, writing, reading, sculpting, video editing, animation, visual effects, etc. I also love science, especially herpetology, arachnology, marine biology, astronomy, cosmology, and physics (one of my as of yet unrealized childhood dreams is to become an astronaut). I am fluent in English and Spanish, and in the past have been somewhat haltingly familiar with Arabic, French, and Italian.

I am very interested in politics, philosophy and religion, and though I have my own definite opinions, I am pretty tolerant of differing ideas (especially with religion and philosophy). I consider myself a constitutionally-leaning independent, and am pretty fiscally conservative. But I am not socially conservative, and could probably be labeled as socially centered or maybe even a slight bit socially liberal. I am a mormon, and consider myself a good christian, but even as a mormon I am probably a bit liberal, or at least, untraditional.

I am smart, but it takes me a long time to learn new things, especially computer-related stuff, and especially in a classroom-and-desk environment. I work better with my hands outdoors, and I am definitely better at slower, methodical thinking than I am at split-second tactical decisions. That isn't to say that I don't do well with that kind of decision-making once I am thoroughly familiar with my job, or the hardware we are using, etc––I'm just not so good at guessing before I get to that point.

Further, my brain works a bit differently than I think most people are used to (probably where my artistic ability comes from), so I always have to ask a lot of follow-up questions when getting a briefing or a command. Sometimes that has tended to irritate my superiors who expect me to already understand all of the details regarding what they are telling me to do. On the flip-side, everyone else's brain works differently than my own, so when I give commands, I have to be very meticulous so that I know that they understand them and that I'm not speaking a foreign language or anything.

Aviation: I have always wanted to fly, and Marine Corps aviation in particular has fascinated me. However, my all-time favorite aircraft, especially as a former infantryman, is the A-10 Warthog, followed closely by various rotor gunships. So I am definitely interested in the other branches. And while I would like to shoot for piloting a fighter or a gunship, I would be content with anything that has wings or rotors.

Intelligence: I worked with intel in Iraq and think that I could do a pretty good job there. It appeals to the slower, more analytical part of my brain, and I always appreciated good intel as a grunt.

Infantry/Security/Pararescue/Etc: I still miss the infantry sometimes, and I am firefighting now, and would be interested in taking that a step farther and getting into crash, fire & rescue, or something similar. Further, I am pretty good at security, and wouldn't at all mind leading a REACT force or something similar. But I'm not absolutely sure that I want to go back into something infantry-related. Still, I want to know my options.

Investigations: I am interested in law enforcement , and am actually looking at the U.S. Marshals and a few other agencies at the same time as I research getting back in to the military.

Media: I know that there are a number of media jobs for enlisted personnel, from combat artists and photographers to film production personnel and other jobs. But I'm not really sure what opportunities, if any, there are for commissioned officers in these areas.

Others: I included a short synopsis of who I am and what I enjoy doing so that those of you with experience in other commissioned jobs can let me know that I am missing something that I might enjoy doing.


Some Questions (I know I will think of others):

I understand the enlisted world pretty well, but am very unfamiliar with the commissioned world. The internet is great, and I am currently learning a lot about the opportunities that I might have as an officer in the different branches. But I would appreciate knowing from those that have been there how the process works, what choices I have, and how to go about navigating it all correctly.

For instance, on the books the prerequisites for getting a commission are pretty lenient, but in actuality (from what I've heard), recruiters can afford to be pretty picky in today's economy. Just what am I up against, and what do I have to do to stand out from other applicants and impress the officer selection officers from the different branches?

And how does one go about picking a job as an officer? From what I understand, I don't get to go in with much of anything in a contract like I did when I enlisted, even supposing that I pass all of my training. In the USMC, do I just get to pick ground or aviation, or can I pick specific jobs within those fields? Is it similar in the other branches, or do they work differently?

And as far as age is concerned, I am already 32, with four years of active duty service. As far as I understand it, the U.S. military in general has an age limit set for commissioning officers, at 35 years old. But every branch seems to have further restrictions, especially for different jobs, such as the USMC at 28 years old, etc. And are there any other jobs whose age restrictions are lower; and are any of them non-waiverable even when considering prior service?

What happens if you pass OCS and then fail at flight school or intel school or something? Are you done and washed out, or do they just stick you in admin somewhere? Are there other chances later to retake the same course?

Are there media-specific MOSs for commissioned officers in any of the branches, or is that something that you are just billeted into from any ground officer's MOS?

Addendum: Enlisted vs Commissioned Culture:

To be honest, a lot of my experience with officers (and to a degree, senior SNCOs) has left a bad taste in my mouth, and I am hesitant to switch to the dark side (hence my initial inclination to do this all quietly), if you know what I mean. Part of me just does not like what I sometimes observed––correctly or incorrectly––as an elitist subculture that shirks responsibility and then tries to pass blame down the line to the sergeants and corporals who are already ridiculously overworked as it is. The other part of me is just afraid that I might end up being the same kind of poor leader that I always resented in the Corps.

I did know a number of very good officers and senior enlisted though, and think that I could model my service after them. Further, I recognize that my observations were from a limited and rather biased perspective.am almost done (have earned a BS in digital media, and am finishing a BFA in illustration), and I find myself wanting to get back in.

Last edited by Poncho_NM; 07-13-2012 at 06:16 AM..
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Old 07-13-2012, 09:41 AM
 
Location: Northern Virginia
499 posts, read 2,154,332 times
Reputation: 1021
You've asked a lot of questions and I'm not sure I'll be able to answer them all. I was enlisted before I became an officer. I'm in the Army so I'll speak in terms of the Army-- I'm not going to speculate about a service I'm not in. In addition to being prior enlisted, I spent a few years in a Recruiting battalion and served as a board member for OCS and WOFT candidates.

Competitive? Yes because supply is much larger than demand. For an officer candidate, the things that are going to be important are -- GPA, letters of recommendation (from people who actually know you and not a form letter from a Senator), academic or athletic achievements (team captain, club president, etc). Your USMC achievements are also important-- did you graduate top of the class, etc.

We don't have a media specific branch for officers that you are directly commissioned to. However, officers can become public affairs officers. It is considered a functional area. Essentially, you could be an infantry officer and switch to the Public Affairs functional area later on-- maybe 6-7 years after you're commissioned? My branch is Field Artillery so don't quote me on this-- I think if you were an Adjutant General (admin) officer, you could work in a public affairs section, although you were not designated as a Public Affairs officer (I hope that make sense).

Flying-- so this is where we are a little different than the other services. If you want to fly and fly a lot, then you want to become a Warrant Officer. Commissioned officers don't fly nearly as much as Warrant Officers do.

Determining a branch-- When you are at OCS, you'll submit a dream sheet for branches. Based upon the needs of the Army and your performance at OCS, you'll be assigned a branch. For example, if there is a large need for signal officers, I suspect you'd find most of your class is commissioned in the signal branch even though not one of them has a big computer/commo background. My enlisted MOS was 13B (cannon crewmember). Makes sense that I'm still in the field artillery, right? It wasn't my first choice (second actually). My first choice was military police-- my degree is in criminal justice. MP is a small branch so it's tougher to get. The artillery branch is large and has a big need for LTs every year. I'll be honest, I don't think they cared less that I was a former 13B. That said, if you're near or at the top of your class and you select Infantry, chances are great you'll get it.

You may have seen some bad officers. I have. Just as I have seen bad NCOs and junior enlisted. The rank you wear doesn't make you a good or bad leader, it's the individual that makes a good or bad leader. So I certainly wouldn't let previous bad experiences with an officer influence your decision-- but that's me. I'm not defending the actions of anyone but I can tell you that leaders are always second guessed. You might have seen an action or a decision that you didn't agree with. However, if you had all of the same information, you may have acted/decided similarly. Subordinates are not going to have every decision their superior makes explained to them in excruciating detail. In any event, if you saw a poor leadership style, don't emulate it.


My last comment-- if you apply for OCS and are not selected, apply again. Chances are always best at the beginning of the FY. Recruiting missions are done FY to FY. If you apply in late AUG, there may only be a "handful" of OCS slots available. But come 1 OCT, the Army has its entire OCS mission to make. I saw many candidates apply several times before they were selected. The one who were never selected just weren't good candidates at all-- the Army did the right thing by not selecting them.

Hope all of that helps.
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Old 07-14-2012, 08:29 PM
 
Location: vagabond
2,631 posts, read 5,447,341 times
Reputation: 1314
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtyGuy View Post
Flying-- so this is where we are a little different than the other services. If you want to fly and fly a lot, then you want to become a Warrant Officer. Commissioned officers don't fly nearly as much as Warrant Officers do.
i am very curious about the army's warrant officer flight program. the usmc doesn't offer anything similar, so i don't know much of anything about it. but it is one of the options that i am heavily looking in to.

when you say that they get more flight time, is that just because warrant officers are not generally in tedious command positions that take them away from their specialty?

i had decided when i was still active duty that if i reenlisted and decided to go all the way, i'd eventually go master sergeant route instead of first sergeant route so that i could stay in my specialty more than if i went command.

Quote:
You may have seen some bad officers. I have. Just as I have seen bad NCOs and junior enlisted. The rank you wear doesn't make you a good or bad leader, it's the individual that makes a good or bad leader. So I certainly wouldn't let previous bad experiences with an officer influence your decision-- but that's me.
for the record, i understand that. it is just that i really wasn't impressed with the officer culture that i was witness to in the infantry. again, we did have some awesome officers, but they seemed to be awesome in spite of the habits and traditions of the other officers around them.

Quote:
I'm not defending the actions of anyone but I can tell you that leaders are always second guessed. You might have seen an action or a decision that you didn't agree with. However, if you had all of the same information, you may have acted/decided similarly. Subordinates are not going to have every decision their superior makes explained to them in excruciating detail.
i understand that too, and experienced that from both ends as an NCO. typically, i am good at giving the benefit of the doubt and understanding that i wasn't privy to all of the same info. but there were too many circumstances when it really just did boil down to arrogance or laziness, and in some cases, especially in iraq, those situations sometimes got marines or civilians hurt.

Quote:
My last comment-- if you apply for OCS and are not selected, apply again. Chances are always best at the beginning of the FY. Recruiting missions are done FY to FY. If you apply in late AUG, there may only be a "handful" of OCS slots available. But come 1 OCT, the Army has its entire OCS mission to make. I saw many candidates apply several times before they were selected. The one who were never selected just weren't good candidates at all-- the Army did the right thing by not selecting them.

Hope all of that helps.
it does help. i am very grateful for your response. semper fi and thanks for your service and your expertise.
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Old 07-15-2012, 12:20 PM
 
Location: Northern Virginia
499 posts, read 2,154,332 times
Reputation: 1021
I'm guessing the USMC approaches Warrant Officers similar to the Army. As a general rule, WOs are single track, specialty officers. They can command, though there are not nearly the number of detachments as there are Company, Battery and Troop commands. With respect to aviation, they are aircraft commanders but that is not the same as commanding a unit/detachment.

So compared to commissioned officers who are Army aviators, they fly far more because of their single track specialty. Aviation commissioned officers are going to have assignments that are outside of aviation units and they are not on flight status. I have no idea if the USMC does that as well-- I assume they do. In addition to the Army using WOs, the US Navy is starting to use WOs for aviators. I'm not sure if they are limited to helicopters or not. I was aboard an aircraft carrier, at sea, last October and the helicopter squadron had a warrant officer. I assumed he was in the Army doing an exchange program. Nope-- he was in the Navy.

Through a recruiter, you can apply for the WOFT program. You'd have to attend and successfully complete WO candidate school prior to going to flight school. Now, not everyone passes flight school. Those that fail are most likely given a new branch-- personnel, field artillery, etc. I have no earthly idea how they decide your new branch. My advice is to not fail and then there's nothing to worry about!
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Old 07-15-2012, 03:34 PM
 
Location: On the Chesapeake
45,115 posts, read 60,226,663 times
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One thing, at 32 you're at the upper age range for flight school. Most in it are 8 to 10 years younger than you. The work is both academic and physical. After 35 your skills/abilities (eyesight, reflexes, etc.) start to degrade at an accelerating rate.
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Old 07-16-2012, 05:57 PM
 
Location: vagabond
2,631 posts, read 5,447,341 times
Reputation: 1314
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtyGuy View Post
I'm guessing the USMC approaches Warrant Officers similar to the Army. As a general rule, WOs are single track, specialty officers. They can command, though there are not nearly the number of detachments as there are Company, Battery and Troop commands. With respect to aviation, they are aircraft commanders but that is not the same as commanding a unit/detachment.

So compared to commissioned officers who are Army aviators, they fly far more because of their single track specialty. Aviation commissioned officers are going to have assignments that are outside of aviation units and they are not on flight status. I have no idea if the USMC does that as well-- I assume they do. In addition to the Army using WOs, the US Navy is starting to use WOs for aviators. I'm not sure if they are limited to helicopters or not. I was aboard an aircraft carrier, at sea, last October and the helicopter squadron had a warrant officer. I assumed he was in the Army doing an exchange program. Nope-- he was in the Navy.
that is more or less what i was trying to get at, with the exception that usmc warrant officers can't fly currently. apparently they did back in vietnam, but they don't anymore. too bad.

Quote:
Through a recruiter, you can apply for the WOFT program. You'd have to attend and successfully complete WO candidate school prior to going to flight school. Now, not everyone passes flight school. Those that fail are most likely given a new branch-- personnel, field artillery, etc. I have no earthly idea how they decide your new branch. My advice is to not fail and then there's nothing to worry about!
i am not going anywhere expecting to be given aviation. i just want the chance to try. if i fail, i'll humbly and happily lead infantry patrols or inventory boxes or whatever they think they need me to do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by North Beach Person View Post
One thing, at 32 you're at the upper age range for flight school. Most in it are 8 to 10 years younger than you.
that is my number one concern right now. recruiters are overflowing with qualified individuals to the point that i am uncertain that they would make prior service age waiver exceptions even if i was a superior applicant in all other areas.

Quote:
The work is both academic and physical. After 35 your skills/abilities (eyesight, reflexes, etc.) start to degrade at an accelerating rate.
i am confident in these areas; i am doing well academically, and getting back in shape physically after four and a half years of a pretty strenuous college schedule. reflexes and physical capabilities will definitely be an issue in the future, but they are still superb at age 32, and i am being careful with my health.

on that note, at what rank does an commissioned pilot start flying a desk more than an aircraft? and what of warrant officers? i'd presume that along with getting more flight hours, warrant officers get to keep flying consistently until later in their career, but that is just a guess.

thank you both for your responses.
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