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Our family is a military family. My dad is former Air Force, my brother is a Marine, my ex husband is a Col in the Army, and three of my four kids are active duty military (two in the Air Force and one in the Army).
My oldest son is in the Army. He has been in about 6 years and spent about 20 months total in Iraq during the surge a few years ago. He does struggle with PTSD as a result of his service with an infantry unit there, which experienced a very high casualty rate. He was not ever seriously injured, though he was directly involved in several IED attacks and his eardrums were ruptured twice, and he was thrown around and bruised up but no broken bones or lacerations.
He's young and a little foolish - and throw in some PTSD and you can imagine, he hasn't been a stellar soldier. He's been stationed in Korea for the past three years and done quite a bit of partying. He has been written up several times for being late for formation - most of those instances were when his meds were switched up (he has had night terrors as the main issue from his PTSD) and he simply didn't hear the alarm. But he's had a few minor disciplinary problems over the past three years.
He recently received his first Article 15. He got two weeks of extra duty and one rank reduction, so now he's bumped down to an E-3.
I can see the writing on the wall for sure. I do not believe he will be allowed to re enlist. He feels the same way, even though he truly does really love being in the military and being infantry. He realizes now that he's mishandled his military career, but both of us think this realization may have come too late to salvage his career.
At least 50 percent of his problems (drinking too much, not immediately addressing the issues stemming from PTSD out of shame and embarrassment) stem directly from his combat experiences in Iraq.
He is going to talk with his commander and tell him sincerely that he wants to stay in the military and that he's ready to "man up" and take it seriously - but who knows what the outcome of that conversation will be? The Army is cutting forces and he seems to be in the cross hairs.
To further complicate matters, he is engaged to a Korean girl. We've met her and we really like her. Would I have chosen this particular complication? No. But it is what it is. They have dated for nearly three years and plan to get married by the end of this year. Naturally she is concerned about the future on more than one level.
I think the best thing he can do right now is be the best soldier he can be and hope for an honorable discharge so that he qualifies for full VA benefits. Here's my main question - under the circumstances, if he keeps his nose clean between now and March when he is discharged, do you think he will be honorably discharged? His Article 15 was only for missing formation - it wasn't for insubordination or any sort of criminal activity. Should he be worried about getting a less than honorable discharge or is it common for a soldier in his position to get an honorable discharge? I do think he will need help managing his PTSD in the future. He is also very interested in using the GI Bill to get his CDL and/or other schooling if he gets out.
He is saving money for the transition. Are there any programs that anyone can suggest to help him when he gets out - IF he gets out? I am going to go talk with the VA locally next week, but do you have any suggestions about what he can be doing between now and March?
Does anyone know if his future wife (they will be married when they get here) will qualify for unemployment benefits if she can't get a job right away? Her English is OK but not great. She has a college degree and is working full time now in Korea.
Do you know if there are any programs that address housing in particular, and job placement? My son does not have any college and has only been an infantry soldier his entire life.
Does the GI bill pay for housing? I've heard it does, and I've heard it doesn't. Not really sure how it works. I even went to the website and still couldn't get a clear picture of how it works.
My offer to my son and his fiancee was to let them stay with me for one month on the condition that they have saved up at least $6000 which I think they will be able to do. He has an automatic draft coming out directly to savings, so that's covered. That will be enough to tide them over till he gets a job or gets things laid out with the GI bill, VA here, etc - I THINK. I don't really know though.
I am not looking forward to this, because I don't see how it won't be very difficult, especially with a new wife in culture shock. But I don't see a way around it. I want to help them get settled as quickly as possible.
One thing in their favor is that both of them are pretty upbeat people, and both of them FINALLY seem to be taking all of this very seriously. Neither of them seems depressed or distraught - just concerned about doing the best they can between now and March to prepare in case he's barred from reenlistment.
Actually he will know by January at the latest -because that's when he has to reenlist. His current enlistment is up in March 2013.
Any suggestions? Sorry for the length of this post by the way.
He's young and a little foolish - and throw in some PTSD and you can imagine, he hasn't been a stellar soldier.
He recently received his first Article 15. He got two weeks of extra duty and one rank reduction, so now he's bumped down to an E-3.
I can see the writing on the wall for sure. I do not believe he will be allowed to re enlist. He feels the same way, even though he truly does really love being in the military and being infantry. He realizes now that he's mishandled his military career, but both of us think this realization may have come too late to salvage his career.
At least 50 percent of his problems (drinking too much, not immediately addressing the issues stemming from PTSD out of shame and embarrassment) stem directly from his combat experiences in Iraq.
He is going to talk with his commander and tell him sincerely that he wants to stay in the military and that he's ready to "man up" and take it seriously - but who knows what the outcome of that conversation will be?
Any suggestions? Sorry for the length of this post by the way.
Wow, you posted just as I was leaving, so I have a few comments and maybe some of the more current people can also comment.
Some PTSD? Not sure how that works for active duty personnel, and as usual, it is a medical issue/decision.
I had an Article 15 early in my career... Did not appear to hurt my career and a few higher ranking people told me to just continue to march and try to excel, and I tried...
A very close friend (since the 70's) had a drinking problem as an E-7, he went through an alcohol abuse program, stuck to the rules and retired as an E-9.
If he is sincere, talks to the First Sergeant and the Commander, they may choose to try and help. Note I said, "If he is sincere". He just has to work on his problems and hope for the best.
Good luck to him.
Last edited by Poncho_NM; 08-19-2012 at 04:57 PM..
Wow, you posted just as I was leaving, so I have a few comments and maybe some of the more current people can also comment.
Some PTSD? Not sure how that works for active duty personnel, and as usual, it isa medical decision.
I had an Article 15 early in my career... Did not appear to hurt my career and a few higher ranking people told me to just continue to march and try to excel, and I tried...
A very close friend (since the 70's) had a drinking problem as an E-7, he went through an alcohol abuse program, stuck to the rules and retired as an E-9.
If he is sincere, talks to the First Sergeant and the Commander, they may choose to try and help. Note I said, "If he is sincere". He just has to work on his problems and hope for the best.
Good luck to him.
Thank you for this advice and insight.
There is no doubt in my mind that he is sincere. Now that he is getting married (and not rashly or suddenly - they have been dating seriously for over two years, so I feel good about his attitude toward his fiancee and marriage), the reality of life as a MAN and HUSBAND AND PROVIDER is suddenly at the forefront of his mind.
Also, he has always loved the military. He was not a great student - he struggles with dyslexia and was therefore always frustrated in school because he is very intelligent but felt so constrained by academia so to speak. When he joined the Army, for the first time he realized he could be GOOD at something - and for a long time he excelled - was given leadership roles, medals, etc. The PTSD threw him for a loop, I think, but he has come to realize over the past year or so that the Army will actually support his treatment as long as he cooperates and doesn't try to minimize things, get off his (mild) meds, or deny he has a problem and try to "fix it" by drinking and partying heavily.
He was putting in for E-5 - had all his points tallied and getting ready for the board - when he got this Article 15 and got his rank reduced. So he really, really feels like a failure at this point. My heart hurts for him. Sometimes being young and irresponsible can really bite you in the butt - and it's hard to watch someone you love make mistakes with such predictable results.
He and I are both just hoping it's not too late for him to turn around. I am afraid that this Article 15 will still be very fresh on the minds of his First Sgt and commander when he needs them to approve his reenlistment. That's what he's afraid of too. They need to sign off on it by January.
I believe he is very sincere at this point. He has never wanted to get out of the military - he has always planned on making it a career. I don't think he handled the PTSD thing too well, mostly because he has felt like it was a sign of weakness. My gosh, he held is platoon leader in his arms while the man died - and it was obvious he was going to die because most of his head was blown off. He heard his last breath and he thought he was trying to say something but he couldn't understand him - and this has haunted him. He feels like he was supposed to deliver a message that he couldn't understand. He also dreams often that his platoon leader comes and sits in his room and says things like, "Why was it me? I took my career seriously. I was trying to be a good soldier. Why are you being such a screw up?"
My heart really breaks for my son - but I need to be strong for him, and allow him shoulder his own responsibilities. He needs to stay on his sleep meds and accept the PTSD as a NORMAL response to an ABNORMAL situation. It's the drinking that's been the biggest issue - that and the fact that he hasn't kept his appointments with the counselor. In other words, self treatment doesn't work! He knows this now, and has a whole new attitude.
Mom, hang in there. Sometimes all we can do is love and believe in our children.
But you lay out the solutions as best they can be for now. He needs to talk sincerely with his chaplain, his commander, his first sergeant, his squad leader, his doctor, and his counselor. And put his resolve into action. And he is on a short timeline, so he needs to live his commitment every day.
What other people do with it, is up to them and who/what they are. But he can influence what HE does.
So good luck to him and best wishes in his life. And best to you Mom.
The only way he can stay in is if he puts the E4 rank back on. He is well past the Retention Control Point for E3 (5 years). As others have suggested, he needs to talk to his command ASAP and start proving to them that he is serious.
For what it's worth, my son was a bonehead when he first joined the Marines back in 2000. He tried anything and everything (pretty much) to get kicked out. He went AWOL for more than 30 days, then turned himself in as he knew anything longer than 30 days was a dishonorable discharge. He had an Article 32 hearing and was sent to the brig. He didn't care - all he could think about was coming home. Well, apparently he didn't pay much attention at the Article 32 hearing, because his command used his accrued leave to counter the AWOL time, so the AWOL time ended up being less than 30 days, so no dishonorable discharge. He had no clue until he was released early (for good behavior in the brig) and sent back to his duty station. When he got there. his SGT told him to pack his gear because they were going out to the field for 10 days. Those 10 days were the longest 10 days of my life. I had all kinds of crazy thoughts running through my head, thinking my son was going to do something crazy out there to make sure he got kicked out.
After the 10 days, he called me and said everything was good, he was staying in. He went on to finish his 4 years, got out with an Honorable Discharge, and successfully reenlisted 2 years later for 4 years. He has since reenlisted again for another 4 years and still currently serves.
Mom, hang in there. Sometimes all we can do is love and believe in our children.
But you lay out the solutions as best they can be for now. He needs to talk sincerely with his chaplain, his commander, his first sergeant, his squad leader, his doctor, and his counselor. And put his resolve into action. And he is on a short timeline, so he needs to live his commitment every day.
What other people do with it, is up to them and who/what they are. But he can influence what HE does.
So good luck to him and best wishes in his life. And best to you Mom.
Thank you - and I'm glad to hear you say this, because it verifies the advice I gave him yesterday about who to talk with in his unit.
I think there's a decent chance that he WILL talk with them and try to get a plan in action. Like you said, it may or may not be too late, but at least he will grow from accepting responsibility.
I will really hurt for him if he has to leave the military - in which case I just hope he gets an honorable discharge - surely he will if he stays out of trouble, right? That's a huge question in my mind. He hasn't broken the law or been insubordinate. Surely if they bar his reenlistment he will still get an honorable discharge, right? I mean, he should have access to VA benefits after all he's been through in combat.
Bin there done that, walked away after 6 years with my Korean wife and two year old son. She had been dumped in the states while I was sent to Vietnam. Couldn't drive or speak english. She did fine and I got a good job after about a year. On the day he seperates have him file a VA Claim for the PTSD and whatever else is wrong with him. I did and got a rating over 30% which I then filed with ABCMR (Army Board for Correction of Military Records) five years later I was retroactivly retired. The VA and the ARMY are by law using the same criteria so a ruling by one is a defacto ruling by both.
It was tough at times, especially for the wife. There were times I was hospitalized and her income was it. There are plenty of haters out there who will act nice and stab them in the back. As long as they hang in there they can be OK
My dinner is almost ready but I will say this---- he can lose all of his benefits, even if he has been to combat, if he continues down the wrong path. If he is chaptered out, he can receive a dishonorable or OTH, and that will negate any talk of using the GI Bill, etc. Alcohol related incidents are now one of the quickest ways to get kicked out of the Army and they do not often result in honorable discharges.
I think the best thing he can do right now is be the best soldier he can be and hope for an honorable discharge so that he qualifies for full VA benefits. Here's my main question - under the circumstances, if he keeps his nose clean between now and March when he is discharged, do you think he will be honorably discharged? His Article 15 was only for missing formation - it wasn't for insubordination or any sort of criminal activity. Should he be worried about getting a less than honorable discharge or is it common for a soldier in his position to get an honorable discharge? I do think he will need help managing his PTSD in the future. He is also very interested in using the GI Bill to get his CDL and/or other schooling if he gets out.
He should get an honorable discharge as long as he finishes his enlistment. And the GI Bill is great, more on that later.
He is saving money for the transition. Are there any programs that anyone can suggest to help him when he gets out - IF he gets out? I am going to go talk with the VA locally next week, but do you have any suggestions about what he can be doing between now and March?
He should look into filing for unemployment when he gets out, and should be sure to take as many transitional classes as he can.
Does anyone know if his future wife (they will be married when they get here) will qualify for unemployment benefits if she can't get a job right away? Her English is OK but not great. She has a college degree and is working full time now in Korea.
No state is going to give her unemployment benefits, she wasn't working here so she is not considered unemployed. Its hard enough for military spouses that were employed in the US to get unemployment when duty stations are changed, and a FN that hasn't worked a day in the US is not going to get a thing.
Do you know if there are any programs that address housing in particular, and job placement? My son does not have any college and has only been an infantry soldier his entire life.
Not outside of the GI Bill and some colleges. Your son's pick of infantry, although needed in the military and the reason the sky is blue, doesn't translate well to the civilian sector. However, when he does eventually fill out resumes and job applications, he will have a laundry list of KSA to apply to any job.
Does the GI bill pay for housing? I've heard it does, and I've heard it doesn't. Not really sure how it works. I even went to the website and still couldn't get a clear picture of how it works.
The post 9/11 GI Bill does provide a living stipend that is equivalent to E-5 BAH for the zip code in which the school is located, so both the responses you have heard are correct(ish). This stipend is only dispersed while school is in session, so your son cannot count on 12 months of "BAH" a year as even if he went to a traditional college year round he would still have to miss 4-5 weeks of intersession breaks.
My offer to my son and his fiancee was to let them stay with me for one month on the condition that they have saved up at least $6000 which I think they will be able to do. He has an automatic draft coming out directly to savings, so that's covered. That will be enough to tide them over till he gets a job or gets things laid out with the GI bill, VA here, etc - I THINK. I don't really know though.
Honestly, one month is not going to be enough, six is more like it for him to get his feet on the ground. He is going to be going through some serious changes, so set timelines, but make them more appropriate (and remember that the economy is in shambles and college students all over America are graduating and moving back in with mom and dad).
I am not looking forward to this, because I don't see how it won't be very difficult, especially with a new wife in culture shock. But I don't see a way around it. I want to help them get settled as quickly as possible.
One thing in their favor is that both of them are pretty upbeat people, and both of them FINALLY seem to be taking all of this very seriously. Neither of them seems depressed or distraught - just concerned about doing the best they can between now and March to prepare in case he's barred from reenlistment.
Actually he will know by January at the latest -because that's when he has to reenlist. His current enlistment is up in March 2013.
Any suggestions? Sorry for the length of this post by the way.
I transitioned from a Naval Deployment into college in 4 months. The college wasn't the one I had been accepted to months earlier, but life throws curveballs and my wife was accepted into a program on the otherside of the country so I had to change my plans to work with hers. I utilized unemployment for those four months, but would have worked if anyone wanted to hire a Nuclear Operator for a dozen weeks (no takers...). Unemployment is very easy to get and retain while your son looks for a job or acceptance into school (some servicemembers double dip and collect unemployment while taking classes, I do not think this act is inline with the integrity that our title of veteran bestows upon us).
My dinner is almost ready but I will say this---- he can lose all of his benefits, even if he has been to combat, if he continues down the wrong path. If he is chaptered out, he can receive a dishonorable or OTH, and that will negate any talk of using the GI Bill, etc. Alcohol related incidents are now one of the quickest ways to get kicked out of the Army and they do not often result in honorable discharges.
Once again, file the VA claim and/or ask for a review by ABCMR, they can upgrade
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