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Surprising to read that General Petraeus was awarded the Bronze Star with the valor device when he was a Major General.
Is it the norm in the US military for those in the General grade to be awarded valor medals ?
Coming from a Commonwealth country we tend to believe that Generals should never get any valor awards unless they in person knocked out three or four machine gun nests.
Commonwealth Colonels and above tend to get the DSO or be knighted for doing a great job.
So my question is this, what did the General do to get the valor award and and are Privates normally given the same award for doing what he did ?
Surprising to read that General Petraeus was awarded the Bronze Star with the valor device when he was a Major General.
Is it the norm in the US military for those in the General grade to be awarded valor medals ?
Coming from a Commonwealth country we tend to believe that Generals should never get any valor awards unless they in person knocked out three or four machine gun nests.
Commonwealth Colonels and above tend to get the DSO or be knighted for doing a great job.
So my question is this, what did the General do to get the valor award and and are Privates normally given the same award for doing what he did ?
Good question, Bronze Star yes, valor no.
My observations are that in most battalion size units that rotates through Iraq their Commander and Command Sergeant Major receive the BS.
The General spent most of his time at Camp Victory in Bahgdad...
Personally I think the award is given out too freely to senior officers and Sergeant majors.
My observations are that in most battalion size units that rotates through Iraq their Commander and Command Sergeant Major receive the BS.
The General spent most of his time at Camp Victory in Bahgdad...
Personally I think the award is given out too freely to senior officers and Sergeant majors.
We tend to push the other way, the commander of a Battalion in Commonwealth forces would not get a valor award nor would the RSM.
A DSO would be appropriate for a Battalion boss.
Petraeus has also been awarded the Close Combat Badge. As the 101st Division Commander during the initial invasion of Iraq, he did not have one. In fact, that was his FIRST combat experience.
So, how does a 4 star General, the theater Commander, get into a position where he is not only in direct contact with the enemy, under fire, but also wins an award for valor?
Petraeus has also been awarded the Close Combat Badge. As the 101st Division Commander during the initial invasion of Iraq, he did not have one. In fact, that was his FIRST combat experience.
So, how does a 4 star General, the theater Commander, get into a position where he is not only in direct contact with the enemy, under fire, but also wins an award for valor?
Can we say...medal inflation?
I understand the general is a pretty bright bloke, how on earth would he try to sell to grunts who had been wounded in combat that he was as deserving as them when it came to valor awards ?
I find that medal inflation idea by rank just plain wrong.
I understand that General Slim of Burma had a policy because officers got paid more etc, any valor awards they won should take more valor etc.
I understand the general is a pretty bright bloke, how on earth would he try to sell to grunts who had been wounded in combat that he was as deserving as them when it came to valor awards ?
I find that medal inflation idea by rank just plain wrong.
I understand that General Slim of Burma had a policy because officers got paid more etc, any valor awards they won should take more valor etc.
General's don't have to justify what they do to the Privates.
I've tried to find the citation for that Bronze Star, but it doesn't seem to be online. The only thing I've found is that it was awarded in 2007. According to one site (which is highly partisan and therefore suspect), it was awarded for a mortar shell landing 50 meters from the General while he was reading a map on the hood of a HUMVEE.
Frankly, I've seen officers "win" medals for a lot less than that, so it's entirely possible.
You've got to understand how the US Army works, especially in the combat arms and more particularly among the officer corps. The first priority for any career officer is advancement. You either move up, or you move out. In order to move up, you must be promoted on time. In order to be promoted, your record has to reflect a few basic things or your career goes off track. I can only speak from my experience as an Infantry officer, so that's what I'll address. Petreaus was commissioned as an Infantry officer, so it's valid for him too.
The first thing an officer needs for promotion is an available slot for his next rank. For instance, you can't be promoted to Major unless you have a slot in someone's manning table which requires the rank of Major. On rare occassions, an officer can be held on a manning table as "overstrength," but that's not a good place to find yourself, especially if that unit deploys. You won't go. It is in finding an available slot where a "helping hand" is desireable. It is here where you find the sucking up, pandering and butt kissing. Some few, lucky officers are offered a slot for promotion based upon their demonstrated skills, but it's usually offered because some higher ranking officer likes you and wants you on his team. It's called "coat-tailing" (or, mentoring as a better term) and it's effect on the efficiency of the Army is insidious and pervasive. Promotion depends far, far more on WHO you know, rather than WHAT you know, and the troops suffer for it. It results in the Peter Principle on steroids as the more adept game-players rise into the ranks where they can do REAL damage to the troops, while the real soldiers are denied such opportunities because they've been busy soldiering rather than schmoozing.
Once a slot is found, an officer than has to be promoted and it is here where medals become critically important.
Officer promotion selections are made at DOD level. The promotion board looks at the totality of an officers career within their branch and rank candidates according to their qualifications. The higher you're ranked by the board, the sooner you get promoted. Of course, influence is important here too, but that's another matter.
What they're looking for is, first, a record of advancing responsibility from one level to another. An officers record must reflect the "right" pattern of growth beginning at the platoon level when an officer was a 2LT. To be acceptable, that career pattern should move from platoon leadership to company staff, to company command, to battalion staff, to battalion leadership and so on. Command time is absolutely critical, but it doesn't have to really mean anything nor is it all that important how well you did the job. Just holding the required command slot is important, so a lot of eager officers finagle their way into command slots and hold them for just a minimum amount of time before transfering back to staff where the schmoozing goes on. Colin Powell's career is a classic example of this. An officer who holds "too much" command time is suspect and not likely to rise to the top of the teepee. He doesn't know the "right" people.
Next, they want to see demonstrated skill in the officers branch. For Infantry officers, that means Ranger School, a Combat Infantryman's Badge (or, as a poor second, the Clost Combat Badge) and at least one personal award for valor. Without those, you're at a disadvantage, so "earning" those becomes a goal in itself, a goal which lower ranking officers on staff and senior NCO's are more than happy to help an officer get because they know which side their bread is buttered on. The staff very often looks for any excuse to help the boss get his "required" medals and are very adept at writing up awards citations which can take something as trivial as a mortar round landing 50 meters away and turn it into an act of pure courage. It's the ultimate exercise in game-playing and everyone knows it goes on, yet nobody does anything about it because it's available to all, when they get into the right position. That such a medal is unearned and unjustified isn't as important as the fact that it's there on his chest in his official promotion portrait. (By the way, as an officer advances in responsibility, his valor medals should advance in "worthiness" too. A Bronze Star won't cut it when you've been a Battalion Commander. A Silver Star is necessary and a Distinquished Service Cross above that rank.)
And, there's this: Ground Zero for all things Infantry in the US Army is Bldg. 4 at Ft. Benning, Infantry Hall. It is populated by scads of officers and senior NCO's and it's like the Christmas parade in the hallways. Officers and NCO's move about like peacocks, with their chest thrust forward so everyone can compare medals. The LAST thing an officer wants to be found lacking by his peers. Good Lord! That guy has a Silver Star and I don't have anything! That won't work! How can I get one without really endangering myself? The Pentagon is even worse.
Anyhow, that's my take on the subject.
Oh, one more thing: The whole system is heavily loaded in favor of "Ring Knockers," West Point graduates. Very, very few OCS or ROTC officers make it to the very top. In fact, I believe Colin Powell is the only one who ever did, which means he's very, very good at playing the game. The West Point Protective Association (WPPA) isn't official, but it is VERY real.
Surprising to read that General Petraeus was awarded the Bronze Star with the valor device when he was a Major General.
Why is it surprising? Can you provide the reference you are reading from?
Quote:
Originally Posted by nzrugby
Is it the norm in the US military for those in the General grade to be awarded valor medals ?
I really don't know what the norm is.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nzrugby
Coming from a Commonwealth country we tend to believe that Generals should never get any valor awards unless they in person knocked out three or four machine gun nests.
General Petraeus is not a member of the "Commonwealth" he is a United States Army General Officer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nzrugby
Commonwealth Colonels and above tend to get the DSO or be knighted for doing a great job.
The United States does not not honor others by knighthood.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nzrugby
So my question is this, what did the General do to get the valor award and and are Privates normally given the same award for doing what he did ?
I don't know. Why don't you have the answer since you appear to have researched the subject?
Surprising to read that General Petraeus was awarded the Bronze Star with the valor device when he was a Major General.
Is it the norm in the US military for those in the General grade to be awarded valor medals ?
Coming from a Commonwealth country we tend to believe that Generals should never get any valor awards unless they in person knocked out three or four machine gun nests.
Commonwealth Colonels and above tend to get the DSO or be knighted for doing a great job.
So my question is this, what did the General do to get the valor award and and are Privates normally given the same award for doing what he did ?
All US generals and admirals have entire chest covered with decorations,common sense dictates that if anyone really did all this they would of died of their wounds or from overwork long ago.
Instructive to see old photos of Brit Generals and Field Marshals,most of whom served in both WW I and II, sporting one row of same with 4-5 decorations.
Oh, one more thing: The whole system is heavily loaded in favor of "Ring Knockers," West Point graduates. Very, very few OCS or ROTC officers make it to the very top. In fact, I believe Colin Powell is the only one who ever did, which means he's very, very good at playing the game. The West Point Protective Association (WPPA) isn't official, but it is VERY real.
This is somewhat true but not entirely. The level of West Point Grads to ROTC/OCS grads reaching the top is fairly even. Tommy Franks, Colin Powell, George W. Casey Jr., Peter Schoomaker, William F. Kernan, J. H. Binford Peay III and many many more did not graduate from the Point.
As far as the original topic goes, David Petraeus is one helluva officer but his ribbon rack is INSANE. I think he has almost every award the Army offers lol. Pretty soon he is going to need an aide to carry what awards wouldn't fit on his chest.
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