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Still, therein lies a fair discussion. It's no secret that we operate submarines in the South China Sea and the US has openly admitted such; the SCS is, for the most part, completely international waters (that's all I'll write about that specific point, though).
But, as we continue project our power, we are going to have to contend with the possibility of our adversaries setting up major bases close to our "home" and staging some of their nukes close to our shores like we do in Turkey, which shares a maritime border with Russia.
Not much detail in what you think may have gone wrong, fix uncertainty? Really?
Getting a fix is SOP whenever you stick a mast up when it is needed/called for, but there is no way on Earth that is going to be a cause of this. Ludicrous for them to even suggest it was a factor.
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Originally Posted by Submariner
It kind of burns my chaps to read an article that wrongly implies a sub must go to the surface to get a nav fix. Keep in mind we are monitoring gravity wells And the contours of the ocean floor. Hint, hint, ..
Just need to stick a mast up for a fix is all, coordinate with comms and the con to keep it up until the fix is done, because radio will have that thing down as soon as their download is complete.
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Originally Posted by Submariner
My profession was Navigation.
If the problem was in 'fix uncertainty', the individuals responsible would be the Assistant Nav, the Nav, and maybe the XO and CO. You would never drag in the COB.
In my initial reaction to this incident. The Nav was not fired. That clearly means the 'fault' does not lie with the Navigation department. The CO, XO, and COB were all fired. Which totally means the crew hated those arseholes.
The COB being fired, as I mentioned before, is the thing that gets me. a COB is fired only when there is some crew moral issue, or a violation they specifically did, they are not really in the operational CoC in this regards.
But yea, baffling the Nav (and Anav) was not mentioned, goodness, they would be first on the chopping block in such an incident. As many articles as there has been, no mention of the Nav and Anav, which makes me think it is not a journalistic oversight.
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Originally Posted by Submariner
So far the news articles to come out have not stated any of the reasons why the crew hates this CO, XO, and COB.
Not only that, how it filtered into causing this incident, unless the issues are conflated by the media (and Navy) and actions in regards to this incident have not yet all occurred. Hell, maybe something far fetched like ignoring the Nav and Anav.
Getting a fix is SOP whenever you stick a mast up when it is needed/called for, but there is no way on Earth that is going to be a cause of this. Ludicrous for them to even suggest it was a factor.
I agree.
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... Just need to stick a mast up for a fix is all, coordinate with comms and the con to keep it up until the fix is done, because radio will have that thing down as soon as their download is complete.
Yes.
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... The COB being fired, as I mentioned before, is the thing that gets me. a COB is fired only when there is some crew moral issue, or a violation they specifically did, they are not really in the operational CoC in this regards.
But yea, baffling the Nav (and Anav) was not mentioned, goodness, they would be first on the chopping block in such an incident. As many articles as there has been, no mention of the Nav and Anav, which makes me think it is not a journalistic oversight.
Are we picking at nits?
It just irks me when someone suggests this was an issue with navigation when it was clearly NOT about navigation.
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... Not only that, how it filtered into causing this incident, unless the issues are conflated by the media (and Navy) and actions in regards to this incident have not yet all occurred. Hell, maybe something far fetched like ignoring the Nav and Anav.
Yes, this was not a not knowing their location issue - they knew their position - the discussion of the SINS and need for getting a fix is not close to reality. Also, just having the nose cone being gone is not really an indication of significant damage - it is designed to be removed - we swapped one in about a day while at the pier. The dome is more for hydrodynamics and providing protecting the systems under it than anything else, one that is damaged can be worse than not having one. I can guess what is the reason for the dismissal, but it would be speculation.
As far as speculation, the sub was most likely performing a mission that was highly secretive, hence the delay of the news.
When the San Francisco was damaged the news came out very quickly and the sub was not in a contested area when the damage occurred.
For those of you that have commented and served time aboard subs, if you had in the mid-80’s been aboard 688’s you know that before the Soviet Union collapsed we were playing extremely close cat and mouse with their subs.
The fact that a very unique submarine was damaged possibly while performing a very unique mission, I would think would be justification for the purge of officers.
There is a significant shortage of dry dock availability right now along with maintenance backlogs. It will be interesting to see how quickly the boat gets repaired, and unlike the San Francisco there are no other boats to rob from as she is a unique one of three asset and the JC is even more unique than her.
“Navy officials want to “aggressively” engage industry to help fix the service’s dry dock shortage and optimize submarine maintenance. The service does not have enough dry docks to meet its maintenance needs, said Michael Breslin, executive director of the Navy’s attack submarine program office. “We have a backlog,” Breslin said today at the Naval Submarine League’s annual symposium. “I think everyone knows that. We have certain ships with idle times, but I’m not going to get into those numbers.” Breslin...”
As far as speculation, the sub was most likely performing a mission that was highly secretive, hence the delay of the news.
Every submarine deployment is TS.
Quote:
... For those of you that have commented and served time aboard subs, if you had in the mid-80’s been aboard 688’s you know that before the Soviet Union collapsed we were playing extremely close cat and mouse with their subs.
I made patrols in the 70s, 80s and 90s.
I am familiar with cat and mouse games.
I had close friends who served on the Parche.
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... The fact that a very unique submarine was damaged possibly while performing a very unique mission, I would think would be justification for the purge of officers.
Incidents rather than crew confidence play a much larger role generally in removals
Thanks for your service, and on another note I enjoy reading your posts in the Maine forum. While from New England originally it is a bit too late for us to start over in Maine but we still enjoy our trips there. While a it is remote area of Maine, my fascination with Aroostook County continues.
I talked to a friend who knows someone who was on this boat when it hit the undersea mount (I've met the person but only in passing before I PCS'd in 2019). He messed his back up pretty badly during the collision, unfortunately. The team he was with has some physical (but largely psychological) issues as well apparently. My friend says that folks thought that they were done for during the collision
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