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I disagree. There is a huge difference between Ukraine and Poland. For starters, one is in NATO and the other isn’t.
Since Russia invaded Ukraine because of the possibility that Ukraine was going to join NATO, and with Poland being a member for over 20 years now, why would anyone think Russia would have a problem with Poland now?
Russia’s own stated goal was to demilitarize Ukraine so Russia can feel safer. Not only was Ukraine refusing to demilitarize, but they were also goading the Russians by acting like they would consider joining NATO.
I’m just hoping this whole war ends and we get back to peace. What we really need is proper US leadership because this whole thing should not have happened.
Not only that, but Ukraine was goading Russians with a threat of rebuilding the nuclear weapons and THEN demanding Crimea back, whether people that live in Crimea want it or not.
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Also, there are 12 million ethnic Russians who live in Ukraine, while only 15,000 Russians live in Poland.
This war never should’ve happened. Thousands are dead for no reason at all. What should’ve happened is that the US should’ve taken the lead and ensured peace in the region.
I wonder if the Biden administration didn’t secretly want this war? Because it sure seems like it could’ve been avoided to me.
1) Let the people of Donbas decide what country they want to be in. Probably Russia since most of them are ethnic Russians
2) put out a statement that Ukraine will always be neutral and never join NATO
3) Quit selling weapons for the Ukrainians to deploy on the Russian border.
Normally I would agree with all that, because IF after these measures Russia would have still proceeded with hostilities, then and only then it could have been identified as aggressor for real.
But since I am well familiar with the whole project of "Ukraine as anti-Russian state" that went into action under Obama, I think things won't calm down until this whole puppet government of Ukraine will be dismantled.
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I’m just hoping this whole war ends and we get back to peace. What we really need is proper US leadership because this whole thing should not have happened.
Prior to WW II Germany violated the Treaty that ended WW ONE and began to rearm. No one did anything. Then they rearmed parts of Germany that were to be demilitarized. No one did anything.
What do you mean "no one did anything?"
Germany was provided by the US and Great Britain with generous loans for this rearmament.
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Then they grabbed Austria. No one did anything. Then they grabbed Checoslovakia. No one did anything. Then they grabbed Poland and we had WW II. Here you have Russia grabbing part of Georgia. No one did anything. Then Russia grabbed part of Ukraine. No one did anything. See a pattern?
Now Russia tried to grab all of Ukraine and while we are not going to WW III, the free nations of the world are sending enough stuff to Ukraine that they can fight back. And now that we know Russia will not keep its word, Finland and Sweden are joining NATO. Even Putin is not so stupid that he will go after a NATO nations.
"They" ( Germans that is) "grabbed Checoslovakia" on the ground of claim that ethnic Germans were mistreated there.
However this is what Donetsk ( and people there, both Russians and Ukrainians) were going through for the last eight years.
Just because of CNN, ABC, BBC et al are not reporting it for Western public, doesn't mean that it's not happening or was not happening for the last eight years.
There are dead and wounded of course, ( five dead, over 20 wounded,) Sunday, but you've heard nothing of it, right? See a pattern here?
So now that we are clear that it's not just "claims," but results of REAL ACTIONS of Ukrainian government towards the population of Donetsk, ( all of Donbass in general) all your "parallels" with Hitler's Germany can be nulled and void.
This war never should’ve happened. Thousands are dead for no reason at all. What should’ve happened is that the US should’ve taken the lead and ensured peace in the region.
I wonder if the Biden administration didn’t secretly want this war? Because it sure seems like it could’ve been avoided to me.
1) Let the people of Donbas decide what country they want to be in. Probably Russia since most of them are ethnic Russians
2) put out a statement that Ukraine will always be neutral and never join NATO
3) Quit selling weapons for the Ukrainians to deploy on the Russian border.
I’m just hoping this whole war ends and we get back to peace. What we really need is proper US leadership because this whole thing should not have happened.
It's not so simple. Biden warned NATO, that Russia was going to invade, but no one in Europe could believe it. Biden couldn't ride into the middle of Europe like a cowboy and start managing the situation unilaterally. The US is part of a team called NATO, so he needed to get the rest of the team on board, but the team was asleep at the wheel. They didn't believe a real war could break out, until after the fact. At that point, of course, it was too late to take preventive measures.
Remember, Russia had many motives for starting the war. NATO really was the least of it, especially since Biden has been against Ukraine joining since sometime in the middle of his Senate career. He's the first President, who understood the risks. In view of that, it was an odd time for P to choose to start a war. Especially since NATO's European members had refused since George Bush's administration, to consider Ukraine for membership. If P believed Ukraine's threats about joining NATO, he was tuning into the wrong channel. He should have approached NATO to see what their position was, and they would have told him they agree with him.
There's the natural resource issue: the territories Russia has taken have nearly all of Ukraine's oil an gas fields.
There's the safety issue for Russia's shipping lanes. Ukraine was attacking Russian shipping from it's ports on the east side of the Azov sea. From this perspective, one can see one reason Russia took control of Abkhazia from Georgia. Abkhazia is also on the Azov Sea, so it means at least that much of Georgia's coastline is safe for Russia. So when negotiations with Ukraine broke down, and one of the negotiation topics was precisely Ukraine's attacks on Russia's ships, Russia decided to simply take the entire shoreline between the Donbas and Crimea, to settle the issue of hostile elements threatening Russian shipping. Problem solved.
There may be other motives that we don't know about. For the US to wade into such a situation and try to broker an agreement or treaty would have required a very intensive and sustained effort. It would have taken Biden away from the US for quite awhile. Really, it's the kind of thing Jimmy Carter specialized in, but he's too old at this point.
It's not a simple matter at all. It's about much more than NATO.
Last edited by Ruth4Truth; 06-07-2022 at 11:40 PM..
There's the natural resource issue: the territories Russia has taken have nearly all of Ukraine's oil an gas fields.
There's the safety issue for Russia's shipping lanes. Ukraine was attacking Russian shipping from it's ports on the east side of the Azov sea. From this perspective, one can see one reason Russia took control of Abkhazia from Georgia. Abkhazia is also on the Azov Sea, so it means at least that much of Georgia's coastline is safe for Russia. So when negotiations with Ukraine broke down, and one of the negotiation topics was precisely Ukraine's attacks on Russia's ships, Russia decided to simply take the entire shoreline between the Donbas and Crimea, to settle the issue of hostile elements threatening Russian shipping. Problem solved.
There may be other motives that we don't know about. For the US to wade into such a situation and try to broker an agreement or treaty would have required a very intensive and sustained effort. It would have taken Biden away from the US for quite awhile. Really, it's the kind of thing Jimmy Carter specialized in, but he's too old at this point.
It's not a simple matter at all. It's about much more than NATO.
Abkhazia is not on Azov sea. It is on the Black Sea
“Other motives” for Putin are not covered by Western media : 8 years of bombing and shelling of the Eastern Ukraine by Ukraine.
The refusal of Ukraine to follow the Minsk Accord signed by Ukraine in 2014 and requiring Ukraine to stop shelling and bombing the civilians of Eastern Ukraine and follow the steps to reintegrate the Eastern Ukraine back into Ukraine…
There is former police officer John Dugan who tells it like it is in Ukraine - not what our media is telling us.
His videos from Ukraine is hard to find - obscured?
There is a British guy with the cell phone - “broadcasting” - do not recall his name - horrific videos of shelling from Eastern Ukraine prior to Russia’s invasion - hard to find today - censure?
Google is showing its power of silencing the “non-PC” information that goes against the party line.
The whole war is not what it seems.
The US government needs a gullible public to empty more of the taxpayers pockets.
Those annual 3 million dollars “consultancy” fees paid to Biden’s son by Ukraine during Biden’s vice-presidency is paying off it seems.
Last edited by L00k4ward; 06-08-2022 at 10:29 AM..
I disagree. There is a huge difference between Ukraine and Poland. For starters, one is in NATO and the other isn’t.
Since Russia invaded Ukraine because of the possibility that Ukraine was going to join NATO, and with Poland being a member for over 20 years now, why would anyone think Russia would have a problem with Poland now?
Russia’s own stated goal was to demilitarize Ukraine so Russia can feel safer. Not only was Ukraine refusing to demilitarize, but they were also goading the Russians by acting like they would consider joining NATO.
Also, there are 12 million ethnic Russians who live in Ukraine, while only 15,000 Russians live in Poland.
This war never should’ve happened. Thousands are dead for no reason at all. What should’ve happened is that the US should’ve taken the lead and ensured peace in the region.
I wonder if the Biden administration didn’t secretly want this war? Because it sure seems like it could’ve been avoided to me.
1) Let the people of Donbas decide what country they want to be in. Probably Russia since most of them are ethnic Russians
2) put out a statement that Ukraine will always be neutral and never join NATO
3) Quit selling weapons for the Ukrainians to deploy on the Russian border.
I’m just hoping this whole war ends and we get back to peace. What we really need is proper US leadership because this whole thing should not have happened.
Prior to WW II Germany violated the Treaty that ended WW ONE and began to rearm. No one did anything. Then they rearmed parts of Germany that were to be demilitarized. No one did anything. Then they grabbed Austria. No one did anything. Then they grabbed Checoslovakia. No one did anything. Then they grabbed Poland and we had WW II. Here you have Russia grabbing part of Georgia. No one did anything. Then Russia grabbed part of Ukraine. No one did anything. See a pattern? Now Russia tried to grab all of Ukraine and while we are not going to WW III, the free nations of the world are sending enough stuff to Ukraine that they can fight back. And now that we know Russia will not keep its word, Finland and Sweden are joining NATO. Even Putin is not so stupid that he will go after a NATO nations.
Turkey grabbed all these lands one after another nobody started a world war
Britain grabbed land all over the globe no one says they were evil
France and Italy raped Africa and we don’t consider them barbarians
Arabs conquered and colonized all of Middle East nobody is upset about that anymore
It would be sensible if Russia could be trusted, but they don't keep their word, they just do what they want. If the whole thing "hadn't happened" Russia would be wrapping up the takeover of Ukraine and moving on to Moldova, Romania and eventually Poland, Finland and probably Sweden. Russia doesn't care how many people they kill or how many buildings they destroy, they fight like this is a 13th century siege.
It would be sensible if Russia could be trusted, but they don't keep their word, they just do what they want. If the whole thing "hadn't happened" Russia would be wrapping up the takeover of Ukraine and moving on to Moldova, Romania and eventually Poland, Finland and probably Sweden. Russia doesn't care how many people they kill or how many buildings they destroy, they fight like this is a 13th century siege.
You are greatly over estimating the Russians militarily this is not ussr of 70s and 1980s
Russia today is more like ussr of early 30s maybe weaker
Remember the winter war ?the Finns stopped them for months and with almost no help from the west
No great power can be trusted , you have to make sure their interests align with yours and they will act as you want them too
Poor foreign policy has now pushed Russia ever closer to China and raised concerns of a wider European war , a genie we thought we put back in the bottle in 1991
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