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Old 07-12-2022, 03:38 PM
 
565 posts, read 472,204 times
Reputation: 1332

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In a nutshell Old Gimlet Eye was railing against ball shirt wars, of which we have had a lot of. We should only be fighting in direct defense of our homeland and our Constitution.

 
Old 07-12-2022, 04:43 PM
 
Location: A coal patch in Pennsyltucky
10,379 posts, read 10,667,875 times
Reputation: 12705
Quote:
Originally Posted by markg91359 View Post
It doesn't stand to reason that the typical recruit, perhaps an 18-20 year old young man is deciding not to join the military because he has to take one vaccination. Many vaccines are required by the military and this is one is now approved just like the others are.

I read an article about the recruiting problem in Politico. Politico mentions the fact that compensation and wages in the military probably need to be increased to keep pace with civilian jobs. That seems a far more logical reason for young people not choosing to enter the armed services.

Most people make career and educational decisions for utilitarian reasons. It becomes a question of: What do I have to gain vs. what do I have to lose? There are some unique factors at play when it comes to military service. For example, patriotism and love of country may be a factor in enlisting for some where that does is not a reason for applying for civilian jobs. On the other hand, few civilian jobs carry the risks that being in the military may. Soldiers and sailors may have to give up their lives as part of their occupation while a similar risk does not exist in the vast majority of civilian jobs. The risk of taking a single approved vaccination is frankly miniscule compared to other risks.

If someone is actually refusing to join the military because they are required to take a Covid 19 vaccination, I would suggest they are a poor candidate for the armed services to begin with.
Exactly!
 
Old 07-16-2022, 01:27 PM
 
Location: Eastern Washington
17,216 posts, read 57,085,908 times
Reputation: 18579
We have two problems going on here:

First, an unusually high percentage of people of an age appropriate to start a military career are unfit for service - too fat, diabetes, mental health issues, allergies, etc. I think a variety of issues are driving this, with unhealthy processed food being significant if not the major issue.

Second, fewer people want to join up. This may be due to the general appearance of corruption in the Federal government, and the military is also doing this to themselves with all the "woke" crap. Agonizing over which pronouns a particular person should be referred to with is not a proper military topic. The "woke" crap will drive away the exact kind of people you would think the military would want.
 
Old 07-16-2022, 01:32 PM
 
Location: A coal patch in Pennsyltucky
10,379 posts, read 10,667,875 times
Reputation: 12705
Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Mitch View Post
We have two problems going on here:

First, an unusually high percentage of people of an age appropriate to start a military career are unfit for service - too fat, diabetes, mental health issues, allergies, etc. I think a variety of issues are driving this, with unhealthy processed food being significant if not the major issue.

Second, fewer people want to join up. This may be due to the general appearance of corruption in the Federal government, and the military is also doing this to themselves with all the "woke" crap. Agonizing over which pronouns a particular person should be referred to with is not a proper military topic. The "woke" crap will drive away the exact kind of people you would think the military would want.
How many 18-19 year old people have you talked to form this opinion?

I agree with your first point and disagree with your second. You give these people too much credit for paying attention to what's going on in the federal government.
 
Old 07-16-2022, 01:59 PM
 
28,671 posts, read 18,795,274 times
Reputation: 30979
Quote:
Originally Posted by villageidiot1 View Post
How many 18-19 year old people have you talked to form this opinion?

I agree with your first point and disagree with your second. You give these people too much credit for paying attention to what's going on in the federal government.
The military is currently turning away >70% of the people who apply because they are unfit for service.

If they didn't have to turn those people away, they would be meeting recruitment goals, despite "wokeness."

There are enough people interested in enlisting...just not enough fit people.

The DoD can tell us the percentage of young people who attempted to enlist but were not fit for service...that's data they have in hand.

Other surveys indicate only about 13% of the general population of young people is interested in serving. This percentage has not changed more than two or three percent either way in 50 years. But remember that the number actually enlisted must be interested and fit.

For that matter, even during WWII, no more than 11% of eligible American men were ever actually in uniform during any point of the war, despite both the draft and the popularity of enlisting. We have to presume that everyone who was both interested and fit was in uniform during WWII...so the "interested and fit" (separate from the "drafted") was less than the total of 11%. We've never seen more than 11% of American both interested and fit (well, less than 11% when you subtract the draftees).

Clearly, the real problem is not interest in enlisting...that's about the same as it's ever been. The real problem is that too many of those interested are not fit for service today.

Last edited by Ralph_Kirk; 07-16-2022 at 02:32 PM..
 
Old 07-16-2022, 02:16 PM
 
2,913 posts, read 2,049,941 times
Reputation: 5159
Like someone mentioned earlier, the generation today is focused more on instant gratification/financial success. Why commit to a job where they have to take orders from someone and make a lousy paycheck when they can make some stupid Tik-Tok videos and potentially make a million dollars within 2 years.
 
Old 07-16-2022, 02:31 PM
 
28,671 posts, read 18,795,274 times
Reputation: 30979
Quote:
Originally Posted by Remington Steel View Post
Like someone mentioned earlier, the generation today is focused more on instant gratification/financial success. Why commit to a job where they have to take orders from someone and make a lousy paycheck when they can make some stupid Tik-Tok videos and potentially make a million dollars within 2 years.
My daughter mentioned in discussion last night studies indicating a significant percentage of younger millennials and generaton Z males being totally willing to be no more employed than it takes to have a place to flop, play video games, and watch porn.

I don't think that set of men has ever been a considerable factor in the US before (although it's been recognized as a social danger in Japan for a couple of decades).
 
Old 07-16-2022, 06:16 PM
 
Location: A coal patch in Pennsyltucky
10,379 posts, read 10,667,875 times
Reputation: 12705
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk View Post
The military is currently turning away >70% of the people who apply because they are unfit for service.

If they didn't have to turn those people away, they would be meeting recruitment goals, despite "wokeness."

There are enough people interested in enlisting...just not enough fit people.

The DoD can tell us the percentage of young people who attempted to enlist but were not fit for service...that's data they have in hand.

Other surveys indicate only about 13% of the general population of young people is interested in serving. This percentage has not changed more than two or three percent either way in 50 years. But remember that the number actually enlisted must be interested and fit.

For that matter, even during WWII, no more than 11% of eligible American men were ever actually in uniform during any point of the war, despite both the draft and the popularity of enlisting. We have to presume that everyone who was both interested and fit was in uniform during WWII...so the "interested and fit" (separate from the "drafted") was less than the total of 11%. We've never seen more than 11% of American both interested and fit (well, less than 11% when you subtract the draftees).

Clearly, the real problem is not interest in enlisting...that's about the same as it's ever been. The real problem is that too many of those interested are not fit for service today.
My son-in-law is finishing training with Air Force Special Warfare. He was in top physical shape when he started and these guys are fitness fanatics. They have spent most of there free time working out while in training. There are a minority of Americans today who are in much better shape than any previous generation. OTOH, we have a majority of Americans who much more obese than any previous generation.
 
Old 07-17-2022, 09:07 AM
 
6,116 posts, read 3,347,968 times
Reputation: 10973
July 15th article in Stars and Stripes.

New poll of veterans and active duty members shows that only 63% would recommend military service to a family member. Just 2 years ago, it was at 75%.

This points out exactly what my original post on this thread stated.

So what has changed in 2 years?

It’s the wokeness of the military nowadays, the no fun atmosphere of people living in fear about the possibility of being reprimanded, or worse, about any little thing they might say or do.

It’s also the embarrassment of a Commander In Chief who not only can’t lead, but is also in cognitive decline. And when I mention embarrassment, that also includes the Afghanistan debacle. I felt nothing but embarrassment about what happened, and EVERY single person I talked to also felt that same embarrassment.

So when you are embarrassed about leadership and embarrassed about a surrender action, should it surprise anyone that recruitment is in serious decline?

Again, it has nothing to do with politics. Obama was wildly popular with the troops, and Trump was, too.

Until there is a change in the White House, recruitment will continue to suffer.

I know there are many out there just waiting for their chance to spin this in the favor of the 80 year old in DC who doesn’t even know where he is.

Have at it. Let’s talk about obesity again, go ahead, spin it.
 
Old 07-17-2022, 09:11 AM
 
14,400 posts, read 14,310,746 times
Reputation: 45727
Quote:
Originally Posted by WK91 View Post
July 15th article in Stars and Stripes.

New poll of veterans and active duty members shows that only 63% would recommend military service to a family member. Just 2 years ago, it was at 75%.

This points out exactly what my original post on this thread stated.

So what has changed in 2 years?

It’s the wokeness of the military nowadays, the no fun atmosphere of people living in fear about the possibility of being reprimanded, or worse, about any little thing they might say or do.

It’s also the embarrassment of a Commander In Chief who not only can’t lead, but is also in cognitive decline. And when I mention embarrassment, that also includes the Afghanistan debacle. I felt nothing but embarrassment about what happened, and EVERY single person I talked to also felt that same embarrassment.

So when you are embarrassed about leadership and embarrassed about a surrender action, should it surprise anyone that recruitment is in serious decline?

Again, it has nothing to do with politics. Obama was wildly popular with the troops, and Trump was, too.

Until there is a change in the White House, recruitment will continue to suffer.

I know there are many out there just waiting for their chance to spin this in the favor of the 80 year old in DC who doesn’t even know where he is.

Have at it. Let’s talk about obesity again, go ahead, spin it.
Most people who make allegations like these would feel a need to try and support them with evidence. No link between alleged cause and effect is shown. Personally, I think the problem is as stated. Many young people are not fit enough to join up and pay and benefits don't compare with other civilian pursuits that are available.
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