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Old 07-17-2022, 09:24 AM
 
6,183 posts, read 3,394,677 times
Reputation: 11130

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Quote:
Originally Posted by markg91359 View Post
Most people who make allegations like these would feel a need to try and support them with evidence. No link between alleged cause and effect is shown. Personally, I think the problem is as stated. Many young people are not fit enough to join up and pay and benefits don't compare with other civilian pursuits that are available.
Get real, like the military is ever going to do a poll on if the military is too woke. Any General who even suggested it would be dismissed for being a racist. But I guarantee you that the leaders in DC wouldn’t like the result of such a poll.

Also, this poll is not about young people joining. It’s about vets and current members in the Military on if they would recommend service to their friends and family. Very different than what you keep harping on, which is unfit people in society, which there has always been.

 
Old 07-17-2022, 09:47 AM
 
Location: Atlanta Metro
563 posts, read 343,005 times
Reputation: 1687
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk View Post
The military is currently turning away >70% of the people who apply because they are unfit for service.

If they didn't have to turn those people away, they would be meeting recruitment goals, despite "wokeness."

There are enough people interested in enlisting...just not enough fit people.

The DoD can tell us the percentage of young people who attempted to enlist but were not fit for service...that's data they have in hand.

Other surveys indicate only about 13% of the general population of young people is interested in serving. This percentage has not changed more than two or three percent either way in 50 years. But remember that the number actually enlisted must be interested and fit.

For that matter, even during WWII, no more than 11% of eligible American men were ever actually in uniform during any point of the war, despite both the draft and the popularity of enlisting. We have to presume that everyone who was both interested and fit was in uniform during WWII...so the "interested and fit" (separate from the "drafted") was less than the total of 11%. We've never seen more than 11% of American both interested and fit (well, less than 11% when you subtract the draftees).

Clearly, the real problem is not interest in enlisting...that's about the same as it's ever been. The real problem is that too many of those interested are not fit for service today.
This is what a Air Force recruiter told me last week during our conversation. I was inviting him to come speak to out JROTC unit when school starts, and asked him about the recruiting issues we are hearing about. His main reason given for the issues was physically/medically unfit. Apparently the services are now using a medical records system called Genesis that gives them access to civilian medical records/history and it’s really reducing their pool of potentials. It’s not that the people aren’t there, they are just being disqualified and the recruiters can’t “work the system” the way they used to be able to.
 
Old 07-17-2022, 10:36 AM
 
14,431 posts, read 14,355,859 times
Reputation: 45871
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoski View Post
This is what a Air Force recruiter told me last week during our conversation. I was inviting him to come speak to out JROTC unit when school starts, and asked him about the recruiting issues we are hearing about. His main reason given for the issues was physically/medically unfit. Apparently the services are now using a medical records system called Genesis that gives them access to civilian medical records/history and it’s really reducing their pool of potentials. It’s not that the people aren’t there, they are just being disqualified and the recruiters can’t “work the system” the way they used to be able to.
I wondered about something like this myself. A huge percentage of young people are being disqualified. Yeah, obesity is a problem with young people. There are also conditions like ADD and there are far more young people medicated than there used to be in the past.

However, even when you take that into account it does seem to me like an unusually large number are being disqualified. There were problems long ago too. Malnutrition was literally a problem with some World War II recruits. Yet, most who enlisted and drafted were inducted into the military.

I do wonder if this system is simply too aggressive in weeding out recruits.
 
Old 07-17-2022, 10:39 AM
 
2,916 posts, read 2,058,194 times
Reputation: 5179
Quote:
Originally Posted by markg91359 View Post
I wondered about something like this myself. A huge percentage of young people are being disqualified. Yeah, obesity is a problem with young people. There are also conditions like ADD and there are far more young people medicated than there used to be in the past.

However, even when you take that into account it does seem to me like an unusually large number are being disqualified. There were problems long ago too. Malnutrition was literally a problem with some World War II recruits. Yet, most who enlisted and drafted were inducted into the military.

I do wonder if this system is simply too aggressive in weeding out recruits.
Our son was almost disqualified for a crooked 2nd toe (he has had since birth). He has always been physically fit and played sports through high school including track.
 
Old 07-17-2022, 11:07 AM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
37,497 posts, read 61,517,507 times
Reputation: 30478
Quote:
Originally Posted by markg91359 View Post
... I do wonder if this system is simply too aggressive in weeding out recruits.
There was a time when a king could maintain a cadre of NCOs and an armory filled with weapons. When he wanted to go to war, he could conscript all civilian males from 15 to 30yo, and with one-week training they were taught to march without tripping over each other, and to be proficient with their weapons. That was all a king needed to have a standing army. That system worked when the weapons were spears, it worked when the weapons were bronze swords, and it worked right up to WWI with bolt action rifles. For thousands of years that same system worked just fine. Look at Russia today, they are still trying to use the same method.

But today much of our military is highly trained. I enlisted in the mid-70s, I had to go through 2 years of schooling, and even once I got to the fleet, I was stuck taking 'advanced' schools every year, all the way to my retirement. We need people who can pass the ASVAB tests, and who can be trained to operate and repair advanced systems.

The shoulder fired rockets we have been giving away in Ukraine, take our army 14-weeks of classroom training to be proficient.

Thankfully [for Ukraine] the tech is good and their guys are able to pick them up without training and basically make them function. But there is a huge difference between basic functioning and being proficient at operation and repair.

We no longer issue spears or bronze swords, today we use advanced systems, our military must be intelligent individuals who are motivated to be there.
 
Old 07-17-2022, 11:41 AM
 
28,696 posts, read 18,851,180 times
Reputation: 31004
Quote:
Originally Posted by markg91359 View Post
I wondered about something like this myself. A huge percentage of young people are being disqualified. Yeah, obesity is a problem with young people. There are also conditions like ADD and there are far more young people medicated than there used to be in the past.

However, even when you take that into account it does seem to me like an unusually large number are being disqualified. There were problems long ago too. Malnutrition was literally a problem with some World War II recruits. Yet, most who enlisted and drafted were inducted into the military.

I do wonder if this system is simply too aggressive in weeding out recruits.
Illegal drugs and other criminal problems.

These days, 30% of even white kids have arrest records.

So, prescription drugs skim kids off the top end and illegal drugs skim kids off the bottom end.
 
Old 07-18-2022, 12:28 PM
 
Location: Texas Hill Country
23,652 posts, read 14,055,678 times
Reputation: 18864
Quote:
Originally Posted by villageidiot1 View Post
My son-in-law is finishing training with Air Force Special Warfare. He was in top physical shape when he started and these guys are fitness fanatics. They have spent most of there free time working out while in training. There are a minority of Americans today who are in much better shape than any previous generation. OTOH, we have a majority of Americans who much more obese than any previous generation.
Sounds like me, minus the special warfare, when I was in. As one XO said, "Well, someone who runs 5 miles a day can eat like that!" or the two sailors who I ran past one, "I wish I could breathe like that." (breathed like a horse when running).

A and B, I guess, on that. A: there might be a caution to living on "full after burners" through one's life for sooner or later, it does catch up with you. Like, perhaps, how we caution about diving for in the latter years, so many professional divers are walking with canes, from progressive DCS situations.

Just as it might be reality, that is flying a jet like that, living life on "full after burners", is very inspiring. "I am a GOD(ESS)! No one can catch me!". I was like that, not the fastest but incredible endurance, run and swim forever. I was Kara, Supergirl.

But B: there are a number of conditions to being like that, number of risks. First of all, I was a loner, finding my world in being like that. Who else would get up at 3 in the morning to run their miles before being at the ship at reveille to run "the fat boys"? In trying to find my identity among my fellow officers, that is who I was, something that no one else was so motivated to be....doing the jobs that no one else wanted.

I was the natural to be the physical fitness coordinator, a job I didn't ask for but certainly got, one of those tasks for a shi**y little jobs officer. As such, I moved to jobs where I was on my own and that isolation from my fellow officers may not have done my career much good.

BUT, on the other hand, off ship and as a Provost Marshal (said in a way so others understand), being feisty and fearless is okay......because you know you don't have a career.

To me, Sweat was Sexy (a product of the 80s) and I was proud of the way I could drop back down to normal energy levels but my body would still be sweating, even after the shower, because that was just the way I operated. The final ship XO I worked for, however, wouldn't let me attend quarters like that, sweating out my khakis, isolated me. Sigh, what to do?

Finally, "more, More, MORE!" in being a fitness fanatic. You don't want to stop, you don't stop, until your body painfully tells you that you are going too far. I would eat breakfast, run the rest of the day off fruit and caffeine, go off in the evening to do 3 or so hours of aerobics, return to the ship and crash, rinse and repeat......and I almost passed out during a security drill. My ambition for fitness was draining my energy banks dry.

Long story short of it, how do we find the right point to have people in excellent shape who aren't going to burn out in a decade or so? Or, is that what we want?
 
Old 07-18-2022, 02:10 PM
 
Location: A coal patch in Pennsyltucky
10,379 posts, read 10,695,330 times
Reputation: 12711
Quote:
Originally Posted by TamaraSavannah View Post
Sounds like me, minus the special warfare, when I was in. As one XO said, "Well, someone who runs 5 miles a day can eat like that!" or the two sailors who I ran past one, "I wish I could breathe like that." (breathed like a horse when running).

A and B, I guess, on that. A: there might be a caution to living on "full after burners" through one's life for sooner or later, it does catch up with you. Like, perhaps, how we caution about diving for in the latter years, so many professional divers are walking with canes, from progressive DCS situations.

Just as it might be reality, that is flying a jet like that, living life on "full after burners", is very inspiring. "I am a GOD(ESS)! No one can catch me!". I was like that, not the fastest but incredible endurance, run and swim forever. I was Kara, Supergirl.

But B: there are a number of conditions to being like that, number of risks. First of all, I was a loner, finding my world in being like that. Who else would get up at 3 in the morning to run their miles before being at the ship at reveille to run "the fat boys"? In trying to find my identity among my fellow officers, that is who I was, something that no one else was so motivated to be....doing the jobs that no one else wanted.

I was the natural to be the physical fitness coordinator, a job I didn't ask for but certainly got, one of those tasks for a shi**y little jobs officer. As such, I moved to jobs where I was on my own and that isolation from my fellow officers may not have done my career much good.

BUT, on the other hand, off ship and as a Provost Marshal (said in a way so others understand), being feisty and fearless is okay......because you know you don't have a career.

To me, Sweat was Sexy (a product of the 80s) and I was proud of the way I could drop back down to normal energy levels but my body would still be sweating, even after the shower, because that was just the way I operated. The final ship XO I worked for, however, wouldn't let me attend quarters like that, sweating out my khakis, isolated me. Sigh, what to do?

Finally, "more, More, MORE!" in being a fitness fanatic. You don't want to stop, you don't stop, until your body painfully tells you that you are going too far. I would eat breakfast, run the rest of the day off fruit and caffeine, go off in the evening to do 3 or so hours of aerobics, return to the ship and crash, rinse and repeat......and I almost passed out during a security drill. My ambition for fitness was draining my energy banks dry.

Long story short of it, how do we find the right point to have people in excellent shape who aren't going to burn out in a decade or so? Or, is that what we want?
The key is knowing how to pace yourself for the long run. There are some extremists out there who have run an incredible number of marathons over a lifetime. I knew one guy the last I checked had a running streak of over 15,000 consecutive days. That's fine if that's your goal. Other people want to bench 500 lbs or deadlift 1,000 lbs. The military just needs people who make fitness part of their lifestyle based on their objectives at that point in their life.
 
Old 07-18-2022, 02:11 PM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
37,497 posts, read 61,517,507 times
Reputation: 30478
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZ_OGIz9Vxc

82nd Airborne singing My Girl
 
Old 07-19-2022, 06:09 PM
Status: "Without data, it's just an opinion." (set 1 day ago)
 
Location: South of Cakalaki
5,735 posts, read 4,722,420 times
Reputation: 5178
https://www.military.com/daily-news/...-recruits.html

Just the facts. 77% don’t qualify without a waiver.
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