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Old 12-12-2022, 07:11 PM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
37,443 posts, read 61,360,276 times
Reputation: 30387

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Three Wolves In Snow View Post
...
Friend.

When I retired from the Navy, I was offered the deal of being an NJROTC instructor. The idea is that I could pick any highschool in any US city. The Navy would pay for the program [curriculum, uniforms, bus expenses for all trips, and my wages], my wages would go to the school district which in turn is expected to list me as faculty and the school would give me the paychecks. [So whatever the local teacher union has cooking the ROTC instructor is fully vested.] The school district gets a program that it does not pay for. The Navy's idea is that anyone who can prosper for 20+ years on Active Duty can prosper in a classroom.

If the classroom is rated for 30 students per class, the school is going to fill those seats.

It is a free program the schools want to fully utilize, more importantly for their 'at risk' students.

It is not the DOD 'forcing' students into these classrooms.

Schools have 'at risk' students and budget crunches, don't look a gift horse in its mouth.

 
Old 12-12-2022, 09:34 PM
 
Location: SC
634 posts, read 326,832 times
Reputation: 1470
Quote:
Originally Posted by ticking View Post
It seems the military is starting to force high school kids to join the Junior ROTC. Obviously in an effort to get more recruits. Parents aren't happy about it being obligatory. If my son were given this option at high school, I'd encourage him to join the class, just for the disciplinary aspects, although I wouldn't be in favor of it being obligatory.


Thousands of Youths Are Compelled to Join Military's Junior ROTC

DETROIT — On her first day of high school, Andreya Thomas looked over her schedule and found that she was enrolled in a class with an unfamiliar name: JROTC.

She and other freshmen at Pershing High School in Detroit soon learned they had been placed into the Junior Reserve Officers’ Training Corps, a program funded by the U.S. military designed to teach leadership skills, discipline and civic values — and open students’ eyes to the idea of a military career. In the class, students had to wear military uniforms and obey orders from an instructor who was often yelling, Thomas said, but when several of them pleaded to be allowed to drop the class, school administrators refused.

“They told us it was mandatory,” Thomas said....



https://www.yahoo.com/news/thousands...154348130.html
It doesn't seem to me like the military is forcing anything; this looks like it is all on the schools. The DoD providing funds and paying the instructor sure does incentivize the schools to make some moves but the schools have the final say.

I wouldn't have done JROTC and wouldn't think to recommend it to my kids but there are some kids that benefit from it, especially if they plan on going ROTC in college or going into the military after HS. The kids who get the most from it though are going to be the ones who are there voluntarily and want to be there. The ones who are forced to be there in most cases aren't going to care about it and aren't going to make any effort.

But yeah: Mandatory JROTC with no option to drop it, in some schools where the minority students are the only ones being auto-enrolled (you know, "to keep them out of trouble"), with texts that say the Trail of Tears was just a simple resettling without mentioning the deaths or saying that the reason we 'lost' the Vietnam War is because politicians hamstrung the military and essentially wouldn't let us war-crime our way to victory? Nah, I can't get behind that at all.
 
Old 12-13-2022, 03:17 PM
 
28,662 posts, read 18,764,698 times
Reputation: 30933
Quote:
Originally Posted by ticking View Post
It seems the military is starting to force high school kids to join the Junior ROTC. Obviously in an effort to get more recruits. Parents aren't happy about it being obligatory. If my son were given this option at high school, I'd encourage him to join the class, just for the disciplinary aspects, although I wouldn't be in favor of it being obligatory.


Thousands of Youths Are Compelled to Join Military's Junior ROTC

DETROIT — On her first day of high school, Andreya Thomas looked over her schedule and found that she was enrolled in a class with an unfamiliar name: JROTC.

She and other freshmen at Pershing High School in Detroit soon learned they had been placed into the Junior Reserve Officers’ Training Corps, a program funded by the U.S. military designed to teach leadership skills, discipline and civic values — and open students’ eyes to the idea of a military career. In the class, students had to wear military uniforms and obey orders from an instructor who was often yelling, Thomas said, but when several of them pleaded to be allowed to drop the class, school administrators refused.

“They told us it was mandatory,” Thomas said....



https://www.yahoo.com/news/thousands...154348130.html
The article makes it crystal clear several times that it is NOT the military, it's the schools that are making the course mandatory, so your post is just as clearly disingenuous.

It's apparent that the schools have discovered the course raises their rate of successful high school completion, or the money itself wouldn't make any difference (because the money is only enough to pay for the course).

I'm not surprised. For a number of years I was part of an independent military-style kid's program in a city in which the schools were hotly hostile to JROTC (I know--I had personally tried to get them to begin Air Force JROTC.

Later, I teamed with a retired Marine and a couple of retired soldiers to start an independent program in the city. We did the uniforms, the drill, the lessons in teamwork and comradery, honor and discipline, and American citizenship. We participated in civic events, marched in parades throughout the county, and worked closely with the VFW and American Legion.

One of the things that was very clear was that a good number of both boys and girls who were disciplinary problems in school were very successful in our program.

An unexpected "problem" was that some parents wanted us to limit their kids' advancement in our program as "punishment" for their kids' school issues, such as cancelling their promotion in our program because of problems in school. We resisted that...we preferred every kid to have something in their lives they were having success with. But we did spend more time in mentorship with those kids.

Something that caught me by surprise: When the Iraq invasion rolled up, the ethnic makeup of our kids changed. It had been mostly working-class white, but it changed to mostly Latino.

I said it caught me by surprise. I literally hadn't noticed it until one morning I had them at ease in formation and was giving them instructions when I heard one boy talking in low tones, but constantly, to the boy beside him. I started to shush him...then realized he was translating what I was saying into Spanish for the other boy.

I had to stop to wonder for a moment why our group had become such a draw for Latino parents, then realized...we were teaching kids how to be good American citizens, and they were taking advantage of it.
 
Old 12-13-2022, 08:50 PM
 
846 posts, read 680,865 times
Reputation: 2271
Simple reason.

The pay is not enough to risk yourself and cause lifelong PTSD even if you do get home.

Categorically, I'd say no amount of pay is.
 
Old 12-14-2022, 08:48 PM
 
Location: SC
634 posts, read 326,832 times
Reputation: 1470
Quote:
Originally Posted by lair8 View Post
Simple reason.

The pay is not enough to risk yourself and cause lifelong PTSD even if you do get home.

Categorically, I'd say no amount of pay is.
If that's a big concern then, with us finally being out of Afghanistan, I'd say now is actually a perfect time to join. We're still involved in some small-scale stuff in the Middle East and are meddling around in Africa a bit but this is a relatively "safe" time to be joining the military. Unless you think we're going to be fighting Russia soon or something. No one knows what could happen; in five years we could be back at it in some ME country on a large scale, our politicians having got us into another war. Seeing how the GWOT went, what it did and did not accomplish, and how its veterans are treated is going to put off a ton of people (deservedly so). But if "Join the military? I don't wanna go into combat and get killed or get PTSD!" is the only thing keeping someone from joining, then they don't have much to worry about at this very moment.
 
Old 12-15-2022, 05:58 AM
 
28,662 posts, read 18,764,698 times
Reputation: 30933
The Z generation doesn't want to do much of anything. Everything is in the tank with the Z generation.
 
Old 12-16-2022, 06:48 AM
 
Location: Texas Hill Country
23,656 posts, read 13,964,967 times
Reputation: 18855
Quote:
Originally Posted by ticking View Post
It seems the military is starting to force high school kids to join the Junior ROTC. Obviously in an effort to get more recruits. Parents aren't happy about it being obligatory. If my son were given this option at high school, I'd encourage him to join the class, just for the disciplinary aspects, although I wouldn't be in favor of it being obligatory.

Thousands of Youths Are Compelled to Join Military's Junior ROTC

DETROIT — On her first day of high school, Andreya Thomas looked over her schedule and found that she was enrolled in a class with an unfamiliar name: JROTC.

She and other freshmen at Pershing High School in Detroit soon learned they had been placed into the Junior Reserve Officers’ Training Corps, a program funded by the U.S. military designed to teach leadership skills, discipline and civic values — and open students’ eyes to the idea of a military career. In the class, students had to wear military uniforms and obey orders from an instructor who was often yelling, Thomas said, but when several of them pleaded to be allowed to drop the class, school administrators refused.

“They told us it was mandatory,” Thomas said....


https://www.yahoo.com/news/thousands...154348130.html
Do they provide them with free training manuals about how to use C4? They did for us back in the Cold War. We had plenty of the flip Ranger handbook.

The thing is, when I was at a psychology conference in the first decade of this century, what were the alarm signals for a potential school shooter in the new century was standard fare for JROTC in the time of General Bernard Rogers.

So is what it is now.....was it then? On a different note, back then, you had to take 2 years of PE to graduate or you could take a PE substitute in JROTC, Band, Cheerleading/drill team/flag corps (of what I recall, probably others) but the catch was, those were for your entire high school, usually 3 years, career.

Finally, way back then, I was taught that JROTC was not to teach me to be a solider but to be a good citizen.
 
Old 12-18-2022, 11:17 AM
 
846 posts, read 680,865 times
Reputation: 2271
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk View Post
The Z generation doesn't want to do much of anything. Everything is in the tank with the Z generation.

Many are working 2 jobs to pay rent, and/or starting businesses and doing side hustles.


They don't want to risk their lives just to make private military companies rich.
 
Old 12-23-2022, 10:51 AM
 
Location: Atlanta Metro
558 posts, read 335,690 times
Reputation: 1678
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk View Post
The article makes it crystal clear several times that it is NOT the military, it's the schools that are making the course mandatory, so your post is just as clearly disingenuous.

It's apparent that the schools have discovered the course raises their rate of successful high school completion, or the money itself wouldn't make any difference (because the money is only enough to pay for the course).

I'm not surprised. For a number of years I was part of an independent military-style kid's program in a city in which the schools were hotly hostile to JROTC (I know--I had personally tried to get them to begin Air Force JROTC.

Later, I teamed with a retired Marine and a couple of retired soldiers to start an independent program in the city. We did the uniforms, the drill, the lessons in teamwork and comradery, honor and discipline, and American citizenship. We participated in civic events, marched in parades throughout the county, and worked closely with the VFW and American Legion.

One of the things that was very clear was that a good number of both boys and girls who were disciplinary problems in school were very successful in our program.

An unexpected "problem" was that some parents wanted us to limit their kids' advancement in our program as "punishment" for their kids' school issues, such as cancelling their promotion in our program because of problems in school. We resisted that...we preferred every kid to have something in their lives they were having success with. But we did spend more time in mentorship with those kids.
I'm a current AFJROTC instructor and I couldn't have said it any better. School districts doing this do it independently of the sponsoring service, and do it as a way to attempt to instill discipline into populations usually lacking it as well as respect. It's most certainly not a practice coming from the Air Force which has almost no interaction with the schools or the district. The instructors are typically the only interface the school and district have with the military service, and we certainly aren't doing this on behalf of recruiters. Its strictly to develop and mentor. The vast majority of cadets never go into the military.
 
Old 12-23-2022, 01:40 PM
 
Location: U.S.
9,512 posts, read 9,079,726 times
Reputation: 5927
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoski View Post
I'm a current AFJROTC instructor and I couldn't have said it any better. School districts doing this do it independently of the sponsoring service, and do it as a way to attempt to instill discipline into populations usually lacking it as well as respect. It's most certainly not a practice coming from the Air Force which has almost no interaction with the schools or the district. The instructors are typically the only interface the school and district have with the military service, and we certainly aren't doing this on behalf of recruiters. Its strictly to develop and mentor. The vast majority of cadets never go into the military.
Which is why JROTC is usually in a slightly below average performing high school. Many JROTC programs are on Indian reservations in the Dakotas, Nebraska, etc. in some school districts there are few if any JROTC programs; for example NW DC in the Bethesda, Chevy chase areas along with McLean area in Fairfax county.
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