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Old 03-08-2023, 08:56 AM
 
Location: U.S.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk View Post
Or Syria, another abandonment of allies that military leadership was vocally bitter about...and that was the previous administration.
Or Afghanistan, another abandonment of allies that military leadership was vocally unhappy about but didn’t have the fortitude to resign.

The world’s public condemnation on the Afghanistan abandonment was much larger in vocal opposition to poor timing, poorly executed and poorly communicated and has a much wider impact while certainly leaving significantly more equipment and vehicles for the enemies’ benefit.

 
Old 03-08-2023, 09:42 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnsonkk View Post
Or Afghanistan, another abandonment of allies that military leadership was vocally unhappy about but didn’t have the fortitude to resign.

The world’s public condemnation on the Afghanistan abandonment was much larger in vocal opposition to poor timing, poorly executed and poorly communicated and has a much wider impact while certainly leaving significantly more equipment and vehicles for the enemies’ benefit.
Afghanistan was mentioned first.

Keep up.
 
Old 03-08-2023, 10:35 AM
 
Location: A coal patch in Pennsyltucky
10,379 posts, read 10,689,198 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m1a1mg View Post
And how did we leave Vietnam?

Remember what happened to the Kurds after Desert Storm?

It somehow still amazes me the political blindness some are willing to tolerate to support their favorite brand. We, the US, have left people in a lurch all over the world.
Good points! Most Americans will support the "perfect wars," that have total victory with minimal casualties and a short duration, e.g., Kuwait, Grenada.

Most wars are not that simple and involve more than just conquering a country. The U.S. is still learning from these mistakes.

This thread is about recruiting being in the tank. I don't think most recruits are looking at the politics of potential wars. They are looking at how the military would affect their career prospects. Most realize, or should realize, that joining the military might mean getting involved in armed conflict.
 
Old 03-08-2023, 05:21 PM
 
Location: U.S.
9,510 posts, read 9,106,966 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk View Post
Afghanistan was mentioned first.

Keep up.
The point made, that you clearly missed, was the Afghanistan failure is much greater in impact and more relevant in the minds of potential recruits that the abandonment of the Allie’s in Syria. Everyone knows who failed in the Afghanistan flee and have valid reasons for not wanting to be part of the military because of these poor decisions.
 
Old 03-08-2023, 10:10 PM
 
2,245 posts, read 3,016,463 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk View Post
And yet, he did have to take those tests, and he was constantly under siege for his weight. That's certainly more than most people are willing to deal with.
I can only address the situation in the Navy from 30 plus years ago. That being that the PT coordinators, who administrate the tests, were all at the E-5,E-6 level. It was known in the Chiefs and Officers community, said coordinators could be, let's say, "influenced". The same applied to junior Hospital Corpsmen, who conduct and write down the numbers, for annual aviation physicals. The Flight Surgeons were figure heads who signed the medical certificate.

As this was still a pencil and paper world in that time frame, I imagine modern technology has eliminated many of these tactics.
 
Old 03-09-2023, 05:12 AM
 
Location: Texas Hill Country
23,652 posts, read 14,042,164 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BLS2753 View Post
I can only address the situation in the Navy from 30 plus years ago. That being that the PT coordinators, who administrate the tests, were all at the E-5,E-6 level. It was known in the Chiefs and Officers community, said coordinators could be, let's say, "influenced". The same applied to junior Hospital Corpsmen, who conduct and write down the numbers, for annual aviation physicals. The Flight Surgeons were figure heads who signed the medical certificate.

As this was still a pencil and paper world in that time frame, I imagine modern technology has eliminated many of these tactics.
Or the shi**y little jobs officer.



As to the influence, I don't know........but I do know that cooperation was rather like pulling teeth.
 
Old 03-09-2023, 10:11 AM
 
6,159 posts, read 3,380,493 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk View Post
Or Syria, another abandonment of allies that military leadership was vocally bitter about...and that was the previous administration.
Syria wasn’t abandoned. Trump was talked out of it. True, it took Mattis to resign for Trump to see the light. But the bottom line, troops were not pulled out and they remain there today. Mattis probably feels vindicated because his resignation caused Trump to reverse policy.

Bolton tried to talk Trump into striking Iran over a drone, thankfully he called off that strike. Which I think was the right call.

Trump got some things right, got some things wrong. Just like every other administration, including the current one, who I feel botched Afghanistan. Very poor decision for a myriad of reasons. Those chickens will come home to roost at some point.
 
Old 03-09-2023, 10:58 AM
 
28,690 posts, read 18,837,616 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WK91 View Post
Syria wasn’t abandoned. Trump was talked out of it. True, it took Mattis to resign for Trump to see the light. But the bottom line, troops were not pulled out and they remain there today. Mattis probably feels vindicated because his resignation caused Trump to reverse policy.

Bolton tried to talk Trump into striking Iran over a drone, thankfully he called off that strike. Which I think was the right call.

Trump got some things right, got some things wrong. Just like every other administration, including the current one, who I feel botched Afghanistan. Very poor decision for a myriad of reasons. Those chickens will come home to roost at some point.
The botch of Afghanistan was in the timing. It was set for the fall for reasons of pure domestic politics when an early spring pull out would have resulted in a lot less chaos.
 
Old 03-09-2023, 11:37 AM
 
6,159 posts, read 3,380,493 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk View Post
The botch of Afghanistan was in the timing. It was set for the fall for reasons of pure domestic politics when an early spring pull out would have resulted in a lot less chaos.
What amazed me was how nobody was held accountable, or blamed, for the chaos. As far as I know, the only person who was dismissed was the LTC who spoke up against the disaster. That’s how you know you are living in a banana republic. When obvious failures aren’t even acknowledged.
 
Old 03-09-2023, 01:39 PM
 
Location: A coal patch in Pennsyltucky
10,379 posts, read 10,689,198 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk View Post
The botch of Afghanistan was in the timing. It was set for the fall for reasons of pure domestic politics when an early spring pull out would have resulted in a lot less chaos.
I guess I'm in the minority because I don't think the withdrawal itself was such a botch. The botch was the decision that were made leading up to it. The Trump administration's US–Taliban deal, and then the Biden administration’s decision in April 2021 to pull out all US troops by September 2021 without leaving a residual force were the main issues, along with out lack of intelligence that the Afghan army would collapse so quickly. Trump wanted to make a political statement, and Biden thought we should've been out of Afghanistan a decade earlier.

Considering the U.S. only had 650 troops in Afghanistan in early August 2021, it is amazing the withdrawal went as smoothly as it did.
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