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Old 03-15-2023, 05:46 PM
 
Location: Richmond, VA
5,052 posts, read 6,354,967 times
Reputation: 7205

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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnsonkk View Post
So a poor economy normally drives recruits into the arms of the military but now a poor economy with surging inflation is not benefiting the military. Well a 5% pay raise won’t solve that issue.
Initial enlistees, in my personal observation, are fairly young. The age isn't advertised but I would bet it's going to be early 20s on average.

By what measure do you think the economy is poor? To people at a later stage of life (I'm presuming you, and for sure me), inflation is high and the market is a concern and oh my goodness, tax policy! To an 18 year old, they are looking to just pay their bills, which are often fairly low.

To a young person, it is really easy to get a job right now, as the unemployment rate is low. That's the overwhelming issue. Can they get a job AT ALL, and shack up with a few roommates and pay the basic bills? And the answer to that question is currently, overwhelmingly, yes.

That job may not pay much-but neither does the military for initial enlistees. And that's exactly what the pay raise is designed to address-to make the job where you can't just quit and they may be a little nervous about and might be dangerous comparable to being on the line crew at Chipotle.

 
Old 03-15-2023, 10:13 PM
 
Location: U.S.
9,511 posts, read 9,102,173 times
Reputation: 5927
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgiaTransplant View Post
Initial enlistees, in my personal observation, are fairly young. The age isn't advertised but I would bet it's going to be early 20s on average.

By what measure do you think the economy is poor? To people at a later stage of life (I'm presuming you, and for sure me), inflation is high and the market is a concern and oh my goodness, tax policy! To an 18 year old, they are looking to just pay their bills, which are often fairly low.

To a young person, it is really easy to get a job right now, as the unemployment rate is low. That's the overwhelming issue. Can they get a job AT ALL, and shack up with a few roommates and pay the basic bills? And the answer to that question is currently, overwhelmingly, yes.

That job may not pay much-but neither does the military for initial enlistees. And that's exactly what the pay raise is designed to address-to make the job where you can't just quit and they may be a little nervous about and might be dangerous comparable to being on the line crew at Chipotle.
Do the math. For a E3 with a couple years, they make $1700/month. That 5% pay raise is an additional $80 per month. THAT is the difference to create a circumstance where people just don’t quit?!?


If soaring inflation, rising interest rates, rising bankruptcies, rising credit card balances and increases in mortgage defaults along with a couple national bank collapses doesn’t answer your “is the economy bad” question, what indicators are you looking at to assess the wonderful economy, for any age bracket?
 
Old 03-15-2023, 11:47 PM
 
28,685 posts, read 18,825,363 times
Reputation: 30998
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgiaTransplant View Post
Initial enlistees, in my personal observation, are fairly young. The age isn't advertised but I would bet it's going to be early 20s on average.

By what measure do you think the economy is poor? To people at a later stage of life (I'm presuming you, and for sure me), inflation is high and the market is a concern and oh my goodness, tax policy! To an 18 year old, they are looking to just pay their bills, which are often fairly low.

To a young person, it is really easy to get a job right now, as the unemployment rate is low. That's the overwhelming issue. Can they get a job AT ALL, and shack up with a few roommates and pay the basic bills? And the answer to that question is currently, overwhelmingly, yes.

That job may not pay much-but neither does the military for initial enlistees. And that's exactly what the pay raise is designed to address-to make the job where you can't just quit and they may be a little nervous about and might be dangerous comparable to being on the line crew at Chipotle.
And for Generation Z, even a reasonably large pay raise won't make very much difference. Generation Z is perfectly willing to earn less for a more pleasant life with more pleasant experiences.

The Generation Z world view is different even from Millennials. Millennials call them the "Doomer Generation." Their go-to malady is "trauma" for virtually every issue, and they're well aware that the military dispenses some of the most hard-core trauma around.

They are already convinced that basic survival is going to be a challenge for them (especially since we've convinced them that climate change is going to wipe them out by 2050). They're largely not interested in volunteering for more challenges.
 
Old 03-16-2023, 04:55 AM
 
Location: Richmond, VA
5,052 posts, read 6,354,967 times
Reputation: 7205
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnsonkk View Post
Do the math. For a E3 with a couple years, they make $1700/month. That 5% pay raise is an additional $80 per month. THAT is the difference to create a circumstance where people just don’t quit?!?


If soaring inflation, rising interest rates, rising bankruptcies, rising credit card balances and increases in mortgage defaults along with a couple national bank collapses doesn’t answer your “is the economy bad” question, what indicators are you looking at to assess the wonderful economy, for any age bracket?
My assessment of the economy was clearly designed to show that it has serious issues - but that to a young person the question is nearly always, overwhelmingly, ‘can I find work that I can pay my bills on?’. As in, find work at all. All the rest fades in importance. I certainly wasn’t shopping mortgage rates at 20.

Finding work at all and the amount of the paycheck was definitely the driver for me at that age. I remember distinctly working my rear off to earn a promotion that brought about 40 a month-back when the average E-3 made about 800. I still have the LESes. It made a *huge* difference in my lifestyle.

At a minimum wage of 10, you’d make about 20,000 a year. You should probably do the math yourself about whether an extra 960 a year might interest a huge chunk of current servicemembers or potential enlistees in a situation where maybe you’re single in a barracks with a dining facility and free medical care, or if you’re married you get a free house and food money and access to pretty good quality subsidized childcare on top of the base pay.
 
Old 03-16-2023, 05:20 AM
 
9,952 posts, read 6,689,326 times
Reputation: 19661
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgiaTransplant View Post
My assessment of the economy was clearly designed to show that it has serious issues - but that to a young person the question is nearly always, overwhelmingly, ‘can I find work that I can pay my bills on?’. As in, find work at all. All the rest fades in importance. I certainly wasn’t shopping mortgage rates at 20.

Finding work at all and the amount of the paycheck was definitely the driver for me at that age. I remember distinctly working my rear off to earn a promotion that brought about 40 a month-back when the average E-3 made about 800. I still have the LESes. It made a *huge* difference in my lifestyle.

At a minimum wage of 10, you’d make about 20,000 a year. You should probably do the math yourself about whether an extra 960 a year might interest a huge chunk of current servicemembers or potential enlistees in a situation where maybe you’re single in a barracks with a dining facility and free medical care, or if you’re married you get a free house and food money and access to pretty good quality subsidized childcare on top of the base pay.
The issue is not just that it’s easy to get a job, but that the jobs offered pay a whole lot more than $10 an hour. That’s below the minimum wage in many states now. I’m in IL where the minimum wage is $13 and it’s unusual for me to see jobs offered paying less than $15 with full benefit. It is not unusual to see jobs posted for $17, $20, or even $22. Right now, an E3 with two years of experience gets paid less than $2500 a month. The jobs paying $15 with full benefits are doing so to start and presumably if you stick around you’ll get a few raises within 2 years. If you don’t stick around, it’s probably because you found a job that paid more. Let’s face it, a 5% raise is not going to cut it.
 
Old 03-16-2023, 08:09 AM
 
28,685 posts, read 18,825,363 times
Reputation: 30998
Quote:
Originally Posted by RamenAddict View Post
The issue is not just that it’s easy to get a job, but that the jobs offered pay a whole lot more than $10 an hour. That’s below the minimum wage in many states now. I’m in IL where the minimum wage is $13 and it’s unusual for me to see jobs offered paying less than $15 with full benefit. It is not unusual to see jobs posted for $17, $20, or even $22. Right now, an E3 with two years of experience gets paid less than $2500 a month. The jobs paying $15 with full benefits are doing so to start and presumably if you stick around you’ll get a few raises within 2 years. If you don’t stick around, it’s probably because you found a job that paid more. Let’s face it, a 5% raise is not going to cut it.
Let's not forget that a soldier's base pay is only about 50-75% of total compensation, though.

However, as I've already mentioned, pay is not the primary motivator for Generation Z. This generation has a different set of priorities than any of us had at that age.
 
Old 03-17-2023, 02:55 AM
 
33,315 posts, read 12,564,297 times
Reputation: 14947
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocko20 View Post
Yes, negotiating the withdrawal of troops for Americas longest war was crazy.

If you actually served, you would know the majority of troops lean right and LOVED Trump. Do you really think peace loving, woke, urban liberal hippies outnumber the rural, bible belt, conservative, southern, gun nut, "father was a veteran" troops?


https://news.gallup.com/poll/118684/...epublican.aspx


I'll never understand how anyone who served can do anything except reject Cadet Bonespurs.

It doesn't matter what his policies were. Among other things, having the self respect to reject him for that (his) disrespect is more important.
 
Old 03-17-2023, 08:34 AM
 
Location: Elysium
12,393 posts, read 8,173,834 times
Reputation: 9204
Quote:
Originally Posted by RMESMH View Post


I'll never understand how anyone who served can do anything except reject Cadet Bonespurs.

It doesn't matter what his policies were. Among other things, having the self respect to reject him for that (his) disrespect is more important.
I had hoped this was all over with the election of President Obama. Those of the all volunteer era really don't care what older folks did to avoid conscription or the unit they volunteered for to make infantry service in Vietnam less likely.
 
Old 03-17-2023, 09:07 AM
 
Location: A coal patch in Pennsyltucky
10,379 posts, read 10,682,678 times
Reputation: 12711
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taiko View Post
I had hoped this was all over with the election of President Obama. Those of the all volunteer era really don't care what older folks did to avoid conscription or the unit they volunteered for to make infantry service in Vietnam less likely.
Really? You're able to speak for over half of the population. How many did you survey?
 
Old 03-17-2023, 09:19 AM
 
Location: U.S.
9,511 posts, read 9,102,173 times
Reputation: 5927
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taiko View Post
I had hoped this was all over with the election of President Obama. Those of the all volunteer era really don't care what older folks did to avoid conscription or the unit they volunteered for to make infantry service in Vietnam less likely.
That’s somewhat true but not for the reasons ongoing now with Biden. He was practically too old to be drafted during Vietnam. He was in his mid to late 20’s during the primary draft years.
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