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Old 07-17-2023, 11:48 PM
 
Location: SC
640 posts, read 330,060 times
Reputation: 1495

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Quote:
Originally Posted by WK91 View Post
In many cases, not all, dependents of military members are squared away individuals who already have a working knowledge of a base and the military culture. They usually perform well based on my experience.

So because of misguided political ideology, many squared away individuals are opting out. That’s not a good thing in my opinion. But according to the liberals who run the Pentagon, this is very good news.

You probably feel like taking a victory lap as plenty of conservative white males are saying no to military service. Just don’t be surprised later when the men who wear dresses, and other “sensitive” individuals perform poorly. Of course, that will never happen right? The leaders at the Pentagon say that standards have not been lowered. You know, the same guys who said the Afghan Military would hold the line.
Yes. People who get angry over made-up nonsense issues like "The fight over the right for men to breastfeed" not joining the military is a good thing. I can only imagine how "squared away" and well-performing such a person would be.

You were 100% correct for once, when you said that "misguided political ideology" is keeping people from joining. Your own anecdote describes one 17-year-old sensitive individual whose misguided political ideology made him opt out. So for once we are in agreement about things.

 
Old 07-18-2023, 07:22 AM
 
28,696 posts, read 18,854,429 times
Reputation: 31004
Quote:
Originally Posted by WK91 View Post
Just don’t be surprised later when the men who wear dresses, and other “sensitive” individuals perform poorly.
They're actually just not going to join anyway, at least not in replacement numbers. Same mistake Budweiser made, same mistake Disney makes: Forgetting to maintain their appeal to their core market.

One of the primary elements of that appeal is when a young person can look at someone in uniform and think, "He's got his act together. I want to have my act together like that."

That effect doesn't happen with people who can't figure out what gender they are.
 
Old 07-18-2023, 12:54 PM
 
Location: Central Massachusetts
6,589 posts, read 7,105,738 times
Reputation: 9334
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk View Post
They're actually just not going to join anyway, at least not in replacement numbers. Same mistake Budweiser made, same mistake Disney makes: Forgetting to maintain their appeal to their core market.

One of the primary elements of that appeal is when a young person can look at someone in uniform and think, "He's got his act together. I want to have my act together like that."

That effect doesn't happen with people who can't figure out what gender they are.
You know that is absolutely true. Being homosexual is one thing but not being able to figure out what sex you are has to be a disorder.
 
Old 07-18-2023, 03:31 PM
 
6,183 posts, read 3,399,135 times
Reputation: 11131
Quote:
Originally Posted by EYEL1NER View Post
Yes. People who get angry over made-up nonsense issues like "The fight over the right for men to breastfeed" not joining the military is a good thing. I can only imagine how "squared away" and well-performing such a person would be.

You were 100% correct for once, when you said that "misguided political ideology" is keeping people from joining. Your own anecdote describes one 17-year-old sensitive individual whose misguided political ideology made him opt out. So for once we are in agreement about things.
You just don’t get it. What exactly do you think military service is?

In basic training, we are taught the 6 articles of the US Military Code of Conduct. I consider this as a sort of “rubber meets the road” moment as to the seriousness of what we are committing ourselves to.

Article 1 states this: “I am an American, fighting in the forces which guard my country and our way of life. I am prepared to give my life in their defense.”

But what if you feel like the country has completely went off the rails? That the leadership of this country has gone completely insane?

If you no longer believe in “our way of life”, that’s a serious problem.

Back when I first joined in 1990, there was no question. I firmly believed in our way of life and I had no problem whatsoever affirming that I would follow the code of conduct.

I think there are many kids today who are conflicted by “our way of life”.

This is what needs to get fixed before we can truly fix our recruiting problems. I don’t think more drag shows on bases will help. I don’t think more DEI initiatives will help, either.
 
Old 07-18-2023, 06:41 PM
 
Location: Central Massachusetts
6,589 posts, read 7,105,738 times
Reputation: 9334
Quote:
Originally Posted by WK91 View Post
You just don’t get it. What exactly do you think military service is?

In basic training, we are taught the 6 articles of the US Military Code of Conduct. I consider this as a sort of “rubber meets the road” moment as to the seriousness of what we are committing ourselves to.

Article 1 states this: “I am an American, fighting in the forces which guard my country and our way of life. I am prepared to give my life in their defense.”

But what if you feel like the country has completely went off the rails? That the leadership of this country has gone completely insane?

If you no longer believe in “our way of life”, that’s a serious problem.

Back when I first joined in 1990, there was no question. I firmly believed in our way of life and I had no problem whatsoever affirming that I would follow the code of conduct.

I think there are many kids today who are conflicted by “our way of life”.

This is what needs to get fixed before we can truly fix our recruiting problems. I don’t think more drag shows on bases will help. I don’t think more DEI initiatives will help, either.
Drag shows are entertainment and are generally fundraisers. DEI is not taught enough in the military. I say that because I do still believe there is racism and sexism and a lot of other isms that do not belong in a well oiled machine. It is not rampant but it is there and it is corrosive.
 
Old 07-18-2023, 07:35 PM
 
28,696 posts, read 18,854,429 times
Reputation: 31004
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldsoldier1976 View Post
Drag shows are entertainment and are generally fundraisers. DEI is not taught enough in the military. I say that because I do still believe there is racism and sexism and a lot of other isms that do not belong in a well oiled machine. It is not rampant but it is there and it is corrosive.
The military has had that since the 70s. The specific socialization goal for the military is that each member fits operationally with each other member to achieve the mission.

The particular issue the military faces is that it it's a boat with a slow leak. Water seeps in until it causes a problem. They find a bucket and madly bail the water out. When the water is out, they forget they have a leak and throw away the bucket. Until enough water seeps in again, forcing them to find another bucket.

The military creates solutions to its social goals (which are different from the social goals of the civilian world) that work so well in one military generation that the succeeding military generation forgets the goal existed and removes the solution. But with a continuous flow of new recruits, those solutions should never be removed. All they really have to do is look back to what worked in the past and re-implement it, because the military socialization goals have not changed.

However, the DEI concept in its core is not about indoctrinating new recruits to the military's socialization goal.

DEI is not about every recruit fitting operationally with each other member to achieve the mission. DEI is about the organization somehow conforming to the peculiarities of each member for the benefit of the member, not to achieve the mission. DEI is, in fact, hostile to the mission...the mission is literally the enemy to DEI.

But as my basic training instructor said, "The Air Force is not yo' mama. The Air Force does not love you."
 
Old 07-18-2023, 08:43 PM
 
Location: SC
640 posts, read 330,060 times
Reputation: 1495
Quote:
Originally Posted by WK91 View Post
You just don’t get it. What exactly do you think military service is?

In basic training, we are taught the 6 articles of the US Military Code of Conduct. I consider this as a sort of “rubber meets the road” moment as to the seriousness of what we are committing ourselves to.

Article 1 states this: “I am an American, fighting in the forces which guard my country and our way of life. I am prepared to give my life in their defense.”

But what if you feel like the country has completely went off the rails? That the leadership of this country has gone completely insane?

If you no longer believe in “our way of life”, that’s a serious problem.

Back when I first joined in 1990, there was no question. I firmly believed in our way of life and I had no problem whatsoever affirming that I would follow the code of conduct.

I think there are many kids today who are conflicted by “our way of life”.

This is what needs to get fixed before we can truly fix our recruiting problems. I don’t think more drag shows on bases will help. I don’t think more DEI initiatives will help, either.
You were fine with that, despite the problems you have with some people in this country. I was too, despite not caring for quite a lot of the people in this country for ways they choose to be. I wasn't like "I'll serve but no racists better expect me to have their back if bullets start flying. All I'm saying is that I will defend my country but I don't consider the people who voted for Bush to be part of 'my country.'"

If this person looked at serving and said "I have to protect the ENTIRE country? Even the LGBT people? And I might have to work alongside them too? Yeah, that's too much for me," then everyone is better off that he made the decision he did.
I would say that serving could possibly have benefited him by forcing him to actually grow up and gain life experience outside of his bubble, meeting different kinds of people and realizing that they aren't all out to get him... but that's not a guarantee considering some of the people posting on this forum had the same experience yet they still act how they do. So I don't know. It's possible he could have learned to adapt and taken something like "Service Before Self" to heart but he definitely would have had a poor mindset going in.

But as for:
Quote:
I think there are many kids today who are conflicted by “our way of life”.

This is what needs to get fixed before we can truly fix our recruiting problems.
You're right that plenty of kids don't feel like this country is worth defending or worth saving. Like your seventeen year old from your story, or like plenty of jaded LGBT youths who don't feel like defending a country that they think doesn't care about them. I'm fairly certain that you've made your views known on issues like recruiting efforts targeting the LGBT, or stuff like the sailor who does drag that has been filming recruiting videos. So to "That is what needs to get fixed before we can truly fix our recruiting problems," I'll ask "Why?"
If we've got Person A (let's say they are a straight white cis male) who doesn't want to join the military because they are conflicted about "our way of life" and Person B (who is maybe none of the things Person A is) who doesn't want to join the military because they are conflicted about "our way of life," and you don't think we should make any time or effort to try to change Person B's mind, then why should we even bother with Person A?
Do we need people? Or do we only need the people that WK91 considers to be "the right type of people?" What happens when everyone else has different ideas as to who constitutes the "good ones" and who makes up the "lesser thans." Where do we go from there?

Last edited by EYEL1NER; 07-18-2023 at 09:09 PM..
 
Old 08-02-2023, 08:11 AM
 
Location: U.S.
9,510 posts, read 9,113,923 times
Reputation: 5927
Default Military could leverage social influencers to help recruiting

In a new move to combat the recruiting crisis, the top Army NCO said the answer is social media.

https://www.stripes.com/theaters/us/...-10923648.html

Despite the Army downsizing over 30,000 soldiers in FY24, there is still a problem with recruiting. Examples are included in the linked article but this cedes control of the messaging.
 
Old 08-02-2023, 08:38 AM
 
14,431 posts, read 14,359,027 times
Reputation: 45871
Quote:
Originally Posted by WK91 View Post
You just don’t get it. What exactly do you think military service is?

In basic training, we are taught the 6 articles of the US Military Code of Conduct. I consider this as a sort of “rubber meets the road” moment as to the seriousness of what we are committing ourselves to.

Article 1 states this: “I am an American, fighting in the forces which guard my country and our way of life. I am prepared to give my life in their defense.”

But what if you feel like the country has completely went off the rails? That the leadership of this country has gone completely insane?

If you no longer believe in “our way of life”, that’s a serious problem.

Back when I first joined in 1990, there was no question. I firmly believed in our way of life and I had no problem whatsoever affirming that I would follow the code of conduct.

I think there are many kids today who are conflicted by “our way of life”.

This is what needs to get fixed before we can truly fix our recruiting problems. I don’t think more drag shows on bases will help. I don’t think more DEI initiatives will help, either.
I think only a minority of people feel that way. However, if they do I agree the military is not the best place for them. I'm not offering an opinion about what I think of transgender people in the military. I will say I grew up in a world where gay people were routinely stigmatized and generally "hated on" by others. There never was a good reason to keep them totally out of the military. Eventually, the pendulum swung and they were allowed in. Although, I still think there are plenty of people seething with rage over that decision who would love to roll it back.
 
Old 08-02-2023, 08:52 AM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
37,497 posts, read 61,523,940 times
Reputation: 30478
Quote:
Originally Posted by markg91359 View Post
I think only a minority of people feel that way. However, if they do I agree the military is not the best place for them. I'm not offering an opinion about what I think of transgender people in the military. I will say I grew up in a world where gay people were routinely stigmatized and generally "hated on" by others. There never was a good reason to keep them totally out of the military. Eventually, the pendulum swung and they were allowed in. Although, I still think there are plenty of people seething with rage over that decision who would love to roll it back.
The UCMJ has an article for 'sodomy'. Any servicemember who does it, on-base / at-sea, in uniform, in a manner where they will be caught, can be prosecuted for it.

There has never been any UCMJ article against homosexuals.

During my career [70s, 80s, 90s] there were homosexuals at every command. Everyone knew that public displays of sodomy were illegal. People did what they did, at home and in private. or else they got busted for it [homosexual and heterosexual alike].

The few vessels I saw that allowed females had way more Captains Masts for sodomy among the Co-ed crew than they ever had from homosexuals.



I agree that homosexuals were routinely stigmatized and generally "hated on" by others. People may have hated on homosexuals, but nobody could get busted simply for being homosexual [because there was no law against it], the only thing illegal was 'sodomy', and sodomy busts were far more frequent among male-female couples than it ever was among male-male couples.

The military did not change. The UCMJ has stayed the same all along.
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