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Old 09-17-2023, 04:29 PM
 
Location: A coal patch in Pennsyltucky
10,385 posts, read 10,650,173 times
Reputation: 12699

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk View Post
We defeated the wartime governments in Germany and Japan and installed governments to our liking. The current Vietnam government is the government we claimed was intolerable.

Good point, but it has been 50 years since we had troops fighting in Vietnam. How long does it take before we can resume normal relations?

There are certainly economic and other reasons for the decline in recruitment, however there are two other factors that do give it a political slant:

1. A great proportion, at least half, of recruits have traditionally come from the South.

2. A great proportion of recruits have traditionally come from the families of people who have been active duty or who have come into contact with people who have been active duty, and were encouraged to enlist by those people.

Politics most certainly plays a role in those two factors. I have loved my lifelong association with the military, and I loved my 26 years on active duty. I still enjoy my continuing recognition as a veteran.

But how enthusiastically can I recommend it right now to a young person? I'm in contact with a lot of veterans, and in some recent straw polls in a couple of online veteran forums I'm in, no veterans were willing to encourage young people to enlist. None. Not one.

I'd have a lot of caveats for that young person. I wouldn't tell anyone to make it a first choice right now.
I agree with points 1 and 2, but I don't see how politics plays a role in those two factors. I think two long wars in Iraq and Afghanistan play a role in discouraging in young people not signing up for the military. I think it is a combination of factors with the economy and not being eligible the leading factors.

Why are veterans not recommending signing up for the military. My son-in-law just recently completed Air Force JTAC training. HIs father went to West Point and his grandfather was career Army enlisted. I didn't see them discouraging him from signing up.

 
Old 09-18-2023, 03:06 AM
 
6,089 posts, read 3,330,622 times
Reputation: 10929
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnsonkk View Post
This article says the Air Force is going to miss their recruiting goals and the article explains the 1000+ additional lenient waivers that are being given for drug use and medical issues.

What’s weird I. This article is it states first time in 20+ years for missing Air Force recruiting but then it says this year is better than last year. So…. Either way, here is the article.

https://federalnewsnetwork.com/air-f...me-since-1999/
That is absolutely outrageous and incredibly stupid:

“Drug usage has absolutely no place in our Air Force”

“But allowing a second test after testing positive at MEPS is the right thing to do”

We all knew it was coming, an erosion of the standards.

What’s next? Enlisting people who don’t know how to read and then sending them out on the flightline with tech orders to perform critical maintenance?

I’m starting to get very uncomfortable here.
 
Old 09-18-2023, 08:53 AM
 
Location: A coal patch in Pennsyltucky
10,385 posts, read 10,650,173 times
Reputation: 12699
Quote:
Originally Posted by WK91 View Post
That is absolutely outrageous and incredibly stupid:

“Drug usage has absolutely no place in our Air Force”

“But allowing a second test after testing positive at MEPS is the right thing to do”

We all knew it was coming, an erosion of the standards.

What’s next? Enlisting people who don’t know how to read and then sending them out on the flightline with tech orders to perform critical maintenance?

I’m starting to get very uncomfortable here.
You are arguing that well-qualified applicants shouldn't be given a second option to retest if they tested positive for marijuana use at a military entrance processing station? Marijuana is legal for recreational or medical use in 38 states and will eventually be legal in the entire country. Marijuana is not exactly "drug usage." Most people also know that all they have to do to pass a urine drug screen for marijuana is to refrain for a couple weeks. Does refraining from marijuana for two weeks now make them an acceptable recruit?
 
Old 09-18-2023, 09:01 AM
 
28,660 posts, read 18,764,698 times
Reputation: 30933
Quote:
Originally Posted by villageidiot1 View Post
You are arguing that well-qualified applicants shouldn't be given a second option to retest if they tested positive for marijuana use at a military entrance processing station? Marijuana is legal for recreational or medical use in 38 states and will eventually be legal in the entire country. Marijuana is not exactly "drug usage." Most people also know that all they have to do to pass a urine drug screen for marijuana is to refrain for a couple weeks. Does refraining from marijuana for two weeks now make them an acceptable recruit?
My question there is: If you know you're going to be tested, can you refrain for two weeks?

There will be situations in the Air Force in which being able to refrain from smoking a joint will be necessary. I don't think being tested for restraint is unreasonable, nor is an expectation of meeting the standard for restraint the first time unreasonable.
 
Old 09-18-2023, 09:17 AM
 
Location: A coal patch in Pennsyltucky
10,385 posts, read 10,650,173 times
Reputation: 12699
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk View Post
My question there is: If you know you're going to be tested, can you refrain for two weeks?

There will be situations in the Air Force in which being able to refrain from smoking a joint will be necessary. I don't think being tested for restraint is unreasonable, nor is an expectation of meeting the standard for restraint the first time unreasonable.
If the military tests for marijuana use, should they also test for alcohol use? Urine tests can detect alcohol in your urine. Generally, these are accurate for 12 to 24 hours.
 
Old 09-18-2023, 09:31 AM
 
28,660 posts, read 18,764,698 times
Reputation: 30933
Quote:
Originally Posted by villageidiot1 View Post
If the military tests for marijuana use, should they also test for alcohol use? Urine tests can detect alcohol in your urine. Generally, these are accurate for 12 to 24 hours.
Maybe they should.

But 12-24 hours is a lot shorter than two weeks.
 
Old 09-18-2023, 09:44 AM
 
Location: A coal patch in Pennsyltucky
10,385 posts, read 10,650,173 times
Reputation: 12699
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk View Post
Maybe they should.

But 12-24 hours is a lot shorter than two weeks.
These tests vary with each person. It depends on your weight, metabolism, amount consumed, and how chronic of a user you are.
 
Old 09-18-2023, 11:50 AM
 
Location: U.S.
9,512 posts, read 9,077,788 times
Reputation: 5927
Quote:
Originally Posted by villageidiot1 View Post
These tests vary with each person. It depends on your weight, metabolism, amount consumed, and how chronic of a user you are.
All great areas to reduce standards to get new recruits. Nice defense in the waiver process for not just drug use but all standards.

In DOD, any marijuana use is prohibited, regardless of what state the service members are in. Driving and flying are kinda required to be in control activities. The point you’re arguing for is more waivers and more leniency for whom? Those rejected applicants for not adhere to well known published standards?

Nice side of the argument to advocate. Team player. Great team to be on. We’re winning they say.
 
Old 09-18-2023, 11:51 AM
 
28,660 posts, read 18,764,698 times
Reputation: 30933
Quote:
Originally Posted by villageidiot1 View Post
These tests vary with each person. It depends on your weight, metabolism, amount consumed, and how chronic of a user you are.
I don't know of anyone otherwise fit for active duty who takes two weeks to process alcohol.

But as I said, maybe they should test for it.
 
Old 09-18-2023, 12:00 PM
 
6,089 posts, read 3,330,622 times
Reputation: 10929
We all knew, or heard of, “that guy” who showed up at MEPS completely incapacitated on alcohol. That guy was denied entrance.

If you know you are going to get drug tested and yet you still can’t stop, I don’t want you anywhere near a flightline. You will cause deaths.
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