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Old 05-03-2024, 06:26 PM
 
6,206 posts, read 3,414,765 times
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https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/y...ir-force-base/

I think this was a very poor decision, to allow protestors to close a gate indefinitely at Kirtland, and then the solution is tell Airmen and civilians to use other gates, which surely impacted the mission with delays.

Why not arrest them immediately?

I also think this decision came from higher up the food chain, way above the O-6 Wing CC. The political appointees at the Pentagon, aka the Generals, probably determined that the optics wouldn’t look good if they had protestors arrested for disrupting base operations.


But serious question:

Do they want this to spread to other bases?

Because a good way to ensure a protest spreads is to do nothing when they disrupt everyday life. It emboldens them.

The only other explanation is that this is all a political prop, people getting paid to protest, and it won’t spread. This was just an appeasement tool for the administration to state that “we are with you”, a basically empty gesture as Israel is still doing what it feels it needs to do with our consent.
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Old 05-04-2024, 03:50 PM
 
Location: Beautiful Rhode Island
9,333 posts, read 14,956,379 times
Reputation: 10458
I don't think any protestors have a right to impede others ability to access any form of ingress- whether it be a road, a gate, a bridge, etc. I think protestors who do this type of thing should be immediately arrested.

They may have their right to free speech, but it's the old axiom.... your rights end where mine begin.
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Old 05-05-2024, 04:24 AM
 
4,919 posts, read 3,344,257 times
Reputation: 9590
Quote:
Originally Posted by WK91 View Post
https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/y...ir-force-base/

I think this was a very poor decision, to allow protestors to close a gate indefinitely at Kirtland, and then the solution is tell Airmen and civilians to use other gates, which surely impacted the mission with delays.

Why not arrest them immediately?

I also think this decision came from higher up the food chain, way above the O-6 Wing CC. The political appointees at the Pentagon, aka the Generals, probably determined that the optics wouldn’t look good if they had protestors arrested for disrupting base operations.

But serious question:

Do they want this to spread to other bases?

Because a good way to ensure a protest spreads is to do nothing when they disrupt everyday life. It emboldens them....

100% agree. Let them line up on the side of the road if they need to protest, but anybody trying to physically impede access to anywhere under the guise of 'protest' should get a ride to the local lockup.
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Old 05-05-2024, 07:27 PM
 
3,292 posts, read 2,375,502 times
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If we had a real president, it would have been shut down in a minute.
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Old 05-05-2024, 07:49 PM
 
13,143 posts, read 21,082,041 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WK91 View Post
Because a good way to ensure a protest spreads is to do nothing when they disrupt everyday life. It emboldens them.
Actually, just the opposite occurred. By temporarily closing the entrance and directing access to other available entry points, basically the protesters were ignored. They sat in the road for a couple of hours, nothing happened. They moved to the side and protested, again being ignored so nothing happened. With no real action being taken against them and the media seeing nothing going on, it became a nothing event. Now imagine the attention and support the protesters would have received from other protesters, the media frenzy that would have followed, and the potential prolonging of the event had the military and civilian authorities responded with some force. If you ignore them and not give them the attention they want, they will go away.
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Old 05-06-2024, 04:41 AM
 
Location: Great Britain
27,332 posts, read 13,588,407 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rabrrita View Post
Actually, just the opposite occurred. By temporarily closing the entrance and directing access to other available entry points, basically the protesters were ignored. They sat in the road for a couple of hours, nothing happened. They moved to the side and protested, again being ignored so nothing happened. With no real action being taken against them and the media seeing nothing going on, it became a nothing event. Now imagine the attention and support the protesters would have received from other protesters, the media frenzy that would have followed, and the potential prolonging of the event had the military and civilian authorities responded with some force. If you ignore them and not give them the attention they want, they will go away.


The USAF has a lot of experience of protesters and during the 1980's had to deal with Anti-Nuclear protesters and other protesters outside of bases across Europe and elsewhere.

The USAF generally tried not to become too involved unless the protesters caused criminal damage, interfered with base operations or trespassed on to the base.

In terms of overseas bases, US forces had to respect local laws outside of the bases, and only had limited powers beyond the wire, so other countries police were generally left to deal with any such issues surrounding the base rather than on it.
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Old 05-06-2024, 04:53 AM
 
4,919 posts, read 3,344,257 times
Reputation: 9590
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rabrrita View Post
Actually, just the opposite occurred. By temporarily closing the entrance and directing access to other available entry points, basically the protesters were ignored. They sat in the road for a couple of hours, nothing happened. They moved to the side and protested, again being ignored so nothing happened. With no real action being taken against them and the media seeing nothing going on, it became a nothing event. Now imagine the attention and support the protesters would have received from other protesters, the media frenzy that would have followed, and the potential prolonging of the event had the military and civilian authorities responded with some force. If you ignore them and not give them the attention they want, they will go away.

Fair point. But they'll go away a lot quicker if they drag 'em out by the hair.
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Old 05-06-2024, 05:50 AM
 
3,292 posts, read 2,375,502 times
Reputation: 6770
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rabrrita View Post
Actually, just the opposite occurred. By temporarily closing the entrance and directing access to other available entry points, basically the protesters were ignored. They sat in the road for a couple of hours, nothing happened. They moved to the side and protested, again being ignored so nothing happened. With no real action being taken against them and the media seeing nothing going on, it became a nothing event. Now imagine the attention and support the protesters would have received from other protesters, the media frenzy that would have followed, and the potential prolonging of the event had the military and civilian authorities responded with some force. If you ignore them and not give them the attention they want, they will go away.
That is absurd. When they sit down on a public highway, you cannot simply ignore them. People have places to go and these idiots are lying in the road to block them. SO tell me how to ignore that. If that happened to me and they were on a highway blocking me, I would simply drive right through them. They will probably move. If not, I still get to where I am going and they won't be going anywhere. No one is going to prevent me from doing what I have to do over their stupid cause.
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Old 05-06-2024, 06:16 AM
 
Location: Beautiful Rhode Island
9,333 posts, read 14,956,379 times
Reputation: 10458
Quote:
Originally Posted by trusso11783 View Post
If we had a real president, it would have been shut down in a minute.
Are you saying the Air Force at Kirtland has no control of their gate? The President of the US is constantly telling them what to do on a daily basis?
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Old 05-06-2024, 05:24 PM
Status: "Without data, it's just an opinion." (set 6 days ago)
 
Location: South of Cakalaki
5,754 posts, read 4,734,447 times
Reputation: 5206
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hollytree View Post
Are you saying the Air Force at Kirtland has no control of their gate? The President of the US is constantly telling them what to do on a daily basis?
Well, if a Marine Company Commander in Afghanistan supposedly has direct contact with the SECDEF and the President regarding force protection, I'm guessing gate guards at Kirtland do as well. /s
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