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Old 09-27-2009, 12:34 PM
 
Location: On a Long Island in NY
7,801 posts, read 10,059,736 times
Reputation: 7366

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IMO warrant officers have their place but we need to reduce the number of ranks, most armies only have 2 or 3 warrant officer ranks at most. On top of that we also have the overinflated NCO rank structure. We should eliminate about half the NCO grades as well.

Let's go back to the 1920 - 48 rank system:

Private
Private First Class
Corporal/Technician 5th Grade
Sergeant/Technician 4th Grade
Staff Sergeant/Technician 3rd Grade
First Sergeant/Technical Sergeant
Master Sergeant
Warrant Officer Junior Grade
Chief Warrant Officer
2nd Lieutenant
1st Lieutenant
Captain
Major
Lieutenant Colonel
Colonel
Brigadier General
Major General
Lieutenant General
General
General of the Army

 
Old 09-27-2009, 01:02 PM
 
Location: New Mexico U.S.A.
26,527 posts, read 51,500,813 times
Reputation: 31318
Quote:
Originally Posted by WIHS2006 View Post
IMO warrant officers have their place but we need to reduce the number of ranks, most armies only have 2 or 3 warrant officer ranks at most. On top of that we also have the overinflated NCO rank structure. We should eliminate about half the NCO grades as well.

Let's go back to the 1920 - 48 rank system:
I don't agree with your suggestion of going back to the 1920 rank system...


Rich
 
Old 09-27-2009, 04:33 PM
 
Location: On a Long Island in NY
7,801 posts, read 10,059,736 times
Reputation: 7366
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poncho_NM View Post
I don't agree with your suggestion of going back to the 1920 rank system...


Rich
Would you care to state why?
 
Old 09-27-2009, 08:39 PM
 
Location: New Mexico U.S.A.
26,527 posts, read 51,500,813 times
Reputation: 31318
Quote:
Originally Posted by WIHS2006 View Post
Would you care to state why?
Why I don't agree with your suggestion of going back to the 1920 system of 48 ranks which included two warrant officer ranks? Sure:
There have been a lot of changes in the US Military Warrant Officer programs since the 1920's. Each branch of the US Military has changed the warrant officer program to meet their needs. The US Air Force eliminated their warrant officers in the 70's. As far as the US Army, it was just after 1920 which established warrant officer assignments in various headquarters and tactical units.One motive for this expansion was "a desire to reward enlisted men of their long service and the former commissioned officers from World War I who lacked either educational and/or other eligibility requirements needed to remain in their commissioned status"

In the 80's, extensive US Army "Total Warrant Officer Study (TWOS)" made major changes. All direct appointments were stopped and a Warrant Officer Candidate Course was established. Eventually the Army Chief of Staff defined a new definition of the warrant officer as: "An officer appointed by warrant by the Secretary of the Army based upon a sound level of technical and tactical competence. The warrant officer is the highly specialized expert and trainer who, by gaining progressive levels of expertise and leadership, operates, maintains, administers, and manages the Army's equipment, support activities, or technical systems for an entire career."

The TWOS was the first Department of the Army-level comprehensive study of warrant officer management from appointment to retirement. It included the total Army, active and reserve. It led a major revision of title 10, US Code, and is the current basis for management of the active duty Warrant Officer Corps which includes: A single promotion system for warrant officers. Tenure requirements based upon years of warrant officer service. The grade of CW5. Authorization to convene boards to recommend warrant officers for selective mandatory retirement. Education goals of an associate degree before eligibility for promotion to CW3 and a bachelors degree before eligibility for promotion to CW4.
Rich
 
Old 09-29-2009, 05:34 AM
 
1 posts, read 3,308 times
Reputation: 10
Default You need soldiers with a drive; if they have an opportunity --- then they'll climb!

I think it's just to make sure you don't **** off all the enlisted whom aren't "officers" with all the special privilages. Yes special privilages - somewhat like racism - separate housing; separate officer's club. Wow, I couldn't handle all the gossip and took off to the county to a 10 acre estate and tend to horses and my kids. My spouse, well he's off fighting a war. Us woman have to be strong during these times - but it doesn't help with all the separation. Anyway just my 2 cents.
 
Old 10-01-2009, 05:00 PM
 
1,340 posts, read 2,793,301 times
Reputation: 768
There is no rhyme or reason to US military ranks, at least twice as many as needed,bureaucrcy gone mad.

US has 3-4 times % of officers of any other modern force.
 
Old 11-25-2009, 10:22 AM
 
Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico
2,117 posts, read 5,350,195 times
Reputation: 1532
warrent officer position would be nice.

you're pretty much the man, the guy that has the most technical knowledge in his/her mos. no troops to supervise. no chain of command to report to. (in theory).
 
Old 11-25-2009, 10:37 AM
 
Location: Hawaii
1,707 posts, read 7,013,163 times
Reputation: 1076
Quote:
Originally Posted by bs13690 View Post
I never really understood with there are Warrant Officers myself but I do know that all the ones I knew is the USMC were the worst people I ever met in my life. They were terrible leaders and did not inspire confidence at all.
Warrant officers in the Army are technical specialists and aren't normally trained to be in leadership positions. Many of course have the skill having been NCOs at one time. Other than helicopter pilots all warrant officers were at one time NCO's. Helo pilots can be newbies or NCOs.
 
Old 11-25-2009, 10:43 AM
 
Location: New Mexico U.S.A.
26,527 posts, read 51,500,813 times
Reputation: 31318
Quote:
Originally Posted by tommodonahue View Post
no troops to supervise.
Just not always true. Writing efficiency reports can be a difficult task. Supervising and/or training troops is in the job description.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tommodonahue View Post
no chain of command to report to. (in theory).
Not always true. In many cases you would be expected to brief situations with a lot of the chain of command staring at you. But each service and each career field can vary drastically.
Rich
 
Old 11-25-2009, 11:38 AM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
37,211 posts, read 60,920,437 times
Reputation: 30076
Quote:
Originally Posted by tommodonahue View Post
warrent officer position would be nice.

you're pretty much the man,
Or woman.



Quote:
... the guy that has the most technical knowledge in his/her mos.
In theory maybe.

In reality a WO has an engineering degree.

He may or may not have the most technical knowledge of the systems in use. If he was an Enlisted Tech on that system before he took a commission, then it could be assumed that he has the most technical knowledge of it.

But it is also likely that he may have never seen the system before.



Quote:
... no troops to supervise. no chain of command to report to. (in theory).
???

As a member of the military every WO will fit within a chain-of-command. Every WO will have other officers above him, who he must report to.

As an officer he will likely have a division working for him also, and evals to be written, and inspections to do, and all of the duties which are required to lead men.
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