Post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) (recruiter, debt, university, medical)

[nullgeo]

Originally Posted by d4g4m

I recently saw a commercial on TV sponsored by a .org don't remember the name, but the announcer stated that 50% of Afgan/Iraq vets suffer from PTSD. Could that be a legitimate number? Not that alot don't but 50% seems like a really high number.
If the resources and testing were available in 1945-46, I wonder what the percentage was for WWll vets. They saw 417,000 Americans in uniform killed and millions injured. I bet it would not have been anywhere near 50% Otherwise the U.S. would not be what it is today. There are 1000 WWll vets that are dying every day. How many of them suffered PTSD for the last 65 years?

Couple of comments in response ... estimates vary but the number of support personnel per combat troop is sometimes estimated as high as 10:1 -- depending on conflict type and place. One might presume then that 50% of deployed troops couldn't possibly suffer PTSD. While I agree that 50% seems high, however, I would also say one doesn't need to be in combat arms to experience trauma in a combat zone ... many jobs and events in support carry risk and extreme anxiety / tension ... accidents are more frequent ... medical services behind the line are very trying, etc ... and thus the number could be higher than the % of actual combatants.

PTSD is also often subtle ... more so than the Hollywood versions.

And most importantly, PTSD is not necessarily completely debilitating. Many, many who struggle with significant PTSD find ways to cope and function quite effectively. Just a few days ago my last uncle passed in a VA nursing facility. He was bomber aircrew in WWII, shot down over Germany and interned at Stalag Luft III for a year and a half, and survived the death march at liberation ... he was about 19 years old ... he was hospitalized first in Europe and then returned to America and was hospitalized for a number of months more after which he came to live with my family while he went on through college earning a physics degree, specializing in optics. He then had a 30+ year career with Ford Motor Company. I lived again with this uncle when I was a teen, away from my family. He was a fine man. A good, loyal husband and father to his own. And good to me. He also clearly suffered real and deep PTSD, but never sought counseling or treatments. It was his experience as an airman that led me to volunteer for air duty and the Vietnam war at 17. After my own experiences in a combat intensive close air support squadron, I know one when I see one.

So, the point is: the numbers may indeed be very high. And the U.S. may be what it is today in spite of the challenges of the condition. Human nature is a wondrously adaptive, seemingly magical force sometimes. Rest well, Uncle -- you earned it

[jasper12]

The "problem" with getting a diagnosis and treatment for PTSD, is first, the stigma of mental health issues, and getting treatment for those issues, the other is the high amount of people who don't have PTSD, trying to work the system, that is has made C&P raters jaded and cynical in regards to legitimate claims of PTSD.

I have found the "typical" PTSD vet does not want to go to the VA for treatment, does not want to discuss the problems he or she is having, and is usually self medicating with drugs or alcohol, in addition to having depression/anger management issues, and that leads to domestic issues. It is complex. And most people with PTSD don't even realize that is the reason for all these other problems, their life is crashing, and they just can't put the puzzle pieces together. Once he or she does, it is an "ah ha" moment.

If you are having problems, you are not a mental case, just having someone help you getting things on track is a good plan. You maybe suffering from PTSD, and not even realize it. If you don't want treatment at the VA, that is okay, they can refer you to someone else.

[nullgeo]

The issue of some vets "working the system" leads me to post the following information which reflects a side of human nature ... perhaps many of those reading knew this already, but it is new to me:

FOUR OUT OF FIVE WHO CLAIM TO BE Vietnam vets are not.
2,709,918 Americans served in uniform in Vietnam
1,713,823 of those were still alive as of August, 1995 (census figures).
~ During that same Census count, the number of Americans falsely claiming to have served in-country was: 9,492,958.
~ As of the August, 2000 Census, the surviving U.S. Vietnam Veteran population estimate was: 1,002,511.
During this Census count, the number of Americans falsely claiming to have served in-country was: 13,853,027.


Vietnam War Facts, Viper's Vietnam Veterans Pages

[jasper12]

My Dad was still wearing his fatigues, in 1995. He went to Vietnam in 1967, came home in 1971. Died, of cancer in 1995.

He had major PTSD issues. He self medicated by smoking pot for years, could not work a regular job, did not matter--he was 100% SC, he slept alone, in his own room, on the floor. It was creepy, he was always up at night, watching, in the dark, from his room, or he would walk around the house, with no lights on. He had tons of knives and guns in his room, and he was always cleaning them.

I will admit of being terrified of my Father, he could go from normal and nice, to completely enraged in nothing flat, and you never knew what would set him off. When he was mad he would talk about how easy it would be for him to kill us all.

My Mom stayed with him until 1980, and she could not take it any more. I think she would have left sooner, but she did not want a divorce, or to leave a disabled guy, but she could not take it any longer. My Dad was usually drunk, or high, or taking his pain meds, or any combo. He had no boundaries, and often talked about his experiences in Vietnam, it was pretty scary. And you could not say anything when he got started, or he woud go crazy mad.

He lived with his Mom until she died, and then was homeless, because he was so paranoid, he did not want to live in an apartment, or with anyone, he was sure people were out to get him for military secrets.

Forget about mental health treatment, he did not want anything to do with those people.

Just my perspective, as a child, with a Dad who had PTSD.

Get help, if not for yourself, for your kids. If you are messed up, you don't even know what it is doing to your kids.

[auntieannie68]

Originally Posted by jasper12

My Dad was still wearing his fatigues, in 1995. He went to Vietnam in 1967, came home in 1971. Died, of cancer in 1995.

He had major PTSD issues. He self medicated by smoking pot for years, could not work a regular job, did not matter--he was 100% SC, he slept alone, in his own room, on the floor. It was creepy, he was always up at night, watching, in the dark, from his room, or he would walk around the house, with no lights on. He had tons of knives and guns in his room, and he was always cleaning them.

I will admit of being terrified of my Father, he could go from normal and nice, to completely enraged in nothing flat, and you never knew what would set him off. When he was mad he would talk about how easy it would be for him to kill us all.

My Mom stayed with him until 1980, and she could not take it any more. I think she would have left sooner, but she did not want a divorce, or to leave a disabled guy, but she could not take it any longer. My Dad was usually drunk, or high, or taking his pain meds, or any combo. He had no boundaries, and often talked about his experiences in Vietnam, it was pretty scary. And you could not say anything when he got started, or he woud go crazy mad.

He lived with his Mom until she died, and then was homeless, because he was so paranoid, he did not want to live in an apartment, or with anyone, he was sure people were out to get him for military secrets.

Forget about mental health treatment, he did not want anything to do with those people.

Just my perspective, as a child, with a Dad who had PTSD.

Get help, if not for yourself, for your kids. If you are messed up, you don't even know what it is doing to your kids.

as a psych nurse that worked with ptsd vietnam vets in the 60's and volunteered as a vfw member at the local va hospital,i have much compassion for the military members affected and their families-----sadly then that was so mishandled that drugging the patient was the primary response creating another issue---i wonder now if these returning vets will get better care and support??

[stillkit]

I wasn't going to participate in this thread, but made the mistake of allowing my curiosity to get the best of me. I finally read all the comments and have to say a few things.

First off, yes...PTSD is real and, yes...some people game the system. I think you'll find, however, that the VA is very good at picking out the fakes and moving them aside long before they ever get a check. The people who deal with Veteran's every day have seen and heard it all. Few who have no real issues make it all the way through the system. It's hard to con a C&P doc who's sat with literally hundreds or thousand of Veteran's and listened to their tales of woe. His BS meter is generally set on "high," and the wannabe's who just want the money soon find themselves on the street where they typically blame the VA for everything. You can listen to them if you like, but the reason they didn't get any "help" is because they had no case in the first place.

As one who has been involved with that system now for better than 10 years, I can report from personal observation that the system works just as it's supposed to work and those who need help usually get it. Those who do not, usually don't. You may take that observation, or leave it as you will.

What irritates me most about this thread is the number of people who want to position themselves to sit in judgment of things they know nothing about. We have the OP, a self-styled legal officer, who apparently has decided that most soldiers diagnosed with PTSD are fakes. May I ask, what the hell does he know about the lives and experiences of those troopers he so readily denigrates? Having never walked in their shoes, the answer is...nothing.

Then, we have others who seem to think that anyone who doesn't fit their image of a "combat" soldier can't possibly have suffered enough trauma to warrant treatment or compensation. How on earth could a "REMF" have done anything? That's nothing more than a self-serving, self-righteous "diagnosis" based upon nothing more than their own hubris. Yet, they feel qualified to question real health-care professionals who have determined that someone else needs help. I would remind such people that the most dangerous job in Iraq was truck driver, and that even clerks and mechanics get mortared, rocketed and hit with IED's. And, there were thousands of non-Infantry types shanghaied into ad-hoc rifle units and sent outside the wire because of a critical shortage of troops, in both Iraq and Afghanistan.

REMF's my azz. Keep your worthless opinions to yourself.

And, we have some who seem to want to make the case that PTSD is so common that they don't seem to understand why it's such a big deal for military people. After all, people get raped and survive car wrecks every day, yet they continue functioning, right?

While post traumatic trauma can result from such things as that, it's an unfair comparison because to be the same as war trauma, the victims would have to be raped or endure a car wreck every day for a year or more, then volunteer to do it again and again and again. If you're going to compare one experience to another, why not? That's what the troops do.

But, what galls me most about this thread is this: Any soldier or Veteran reading this will find his natural reluctance to admit that he/she has a problem re-enforced. All they'll see here is one more reason to avoid dealing with their problems because, judging by the tone of this thread, they'll be suspected of being a fake, in addition to being viewed as weak or self-serving by their fellow soldiers. All threads like this do is feed the denial beast and that's a tragedy if it causes one, just one, soldier to suck it up and try to deal with his experiences all by himself.

PTSD is a war wound, just as surely as a bullet to the gut or a brain-rattling IED. No Purple Hearts are awarded, but the injury is authentic. I can't help but wonder just how many of those who question another man's diagnosis of PTSD would have the temerity to sit in judgment of another man's Purple Heart? Would you question whether or not a soldier with shrapnel all in his body deserves compensation and help? Why not? If you can question one soldier's psychological wound, why not another's physical wound? After all, you know as much about one as the other....right?

You self-righteous, critical, judgmental know-it-all's should give a rest. Troopers suffering from things you know nothing about and cannot understand don't need your kind of "help." They don't need to be suspected of faking it or of gaming the system. They need your support, not your condemnation or your suspicions.

[jasper12]

I will say this, my Dad did try to seek treatment for PTSD, but he smoked pot, and the therapsists gave him so much greif about this substance abuse issues, making that the problem, that he would not go for help with the PTSD.

The issue is, he smoked pot, to deal with the PTSD. Yes, I am sure that interferred with his functioning, and probably increased his paranoia. But it was helping him, from his perspective.

INMO the professionals should have worked with him on the PTSD, and then addressed the substance abuse. Becuase of their insistence that he get "clean", he was alienated from the people who were supposed to be there to help him. And if they had, he might have stopped using.

[stillkit]

Originally Posted by jasper12

I will say this, my Dad did try to seek treatment for PTSD, but he smoked pot, and the therapsists gave him so much greif about this substance abuse issues, making that the problem, that he would not go for help with the PTSD.

The issue is, he smoked pot, to deal with the PTSD. Yes, I am sure that interferred with his functioning, and probably increased his paranoia. But it was helping him, from his perspective.

INMO the professionals should have worked with him on the PTSD, and then addressed the substance abuse. Becuase of their insistence that he get "clean", he was alienated from the people who were supposed to be there to help him. And if they had, he might have stopped using.

I know a lot of guys who self-medicate with one thing or another, but the only time I've ever heard of a therapist insisting someone get "clean" before treatment was when they were going into controlled environment therapy. In other words, a lock-down, resident facility. They typically last a few weeks and one of the requirements is to be drug and alcohol free for a certain period of time before entering. Not everyone goes into one and it's entirely voluntary, unless the Veteran is dangerous to others and/or himself.

Other than that, I've never heard of that before.

[Sunnysee]

Jasper, I can't, I mean it would not be my place to, BUT...I, even were I "that type of judgemental person" I couldn't fault your dad for reaching for the pot. I've heard comments from and about some that some of the prescriptions made them miserable in other ways. At least his pot was likely, totally natural. I just had to share this thought.

God bless him for using something, even if in desperation. He was tormented and it sounds like he perhaps actually was doing his personal, best, with it.

Stillkit, two posts ago, when you wrote your very long post, that I discern as "from the heart" I almost applauded, as I read it in a couple of places, and the whole post got a "Rep" from me. Thank you!

The best, new hope for PTSD on the horizon is, NOT because I say so...what Army Col. Monaco has discovered, uses himself and is giving freely from his 501c. It was called someone's "Christmas Miracle" a couple of years ago. I don't think that, either, was an exaggeration.

[jasper12]

Things may have changed, remember, my Dad was seeking help back in the 70's. And he felt like he just got a lot of judging. But, that was then, and I believe things have changed. Maybe because of vets like my Dad.