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Old 06-01-2010, 06:34 PM
 
Location: Hawaii
1,707 posts, read 7,032,466 times
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Everyone knew the deal when the joined and for that matter had to lie on enlistment paperwork if they are homosexual.

If anyone didn't agree to the conditions they didn't have to join.
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Old 06-01-2010, 06:39 PM
 
Location: Indianapolis
2,294 posts, read 2,659,983 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Balad1 View Post
Everyone knew the deal when the joined and for that matter had to lie on enlistment paperwork if they are homosexual.

If anyone didn't agree to the conditions they didn't have to join.
Does it ask that?
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Old 06-01-2010, 06:57 PM
 
Location: Hawaii
1,707 posts, read 7,032,466 times
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It did when I joined and when I was a recruiter in 1998-2001, I don't know about after DADT went into effect. I remember it asking on the enlistment paperwork and the security clearance questionnaire.

Maybe a current recuiter can tell us about the paperwork at this time.
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Old 06-01-2010, 07:06 PM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
37,443 posts, read 61,352,754 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Knox Harrington View Post
OK, so what about lesbians?

Anyway, saying one is "gay" does not admit to "sodomy." What if there is only oral? What if they only live with another of the same sex and are never sexually active until they can get married, just like a lot of heterosexuals do?

Do you see the problem with getting involved in people's bedroom activities?

Sodomy being a violation of the UCMJ is just as dumb as DADT, IMO.
As defined by the UCMJ 'oral' is sodomy.

The UCMJ never forbids homosexuals, it only makes a crime of sodomy.

A US servicemember can have 'feelings' that is not illegal. It is illegal to commit sodomy.

When you join you give up many citizenship 'rights'.
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Old 06-01-2010, 07:41 PM
 
3,650 posts, read 9,209,220 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AADAD View Post
I don't care who is next to me
Not even in the shower?

"Hey big boy, you dropped your soap"

Pass.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Knox Harrington View Post
Are you saying those countries can pull it off but we can't?
Yep.


Quote:
Originally Posted by forest beekeeper View Post
We have a UCMJ article which makes 'sodomy' illegal.
Where in there does it equate homosexuality to sodomy? Sincere question, I don't know even if it does offhand.

PS if engaging in oral sex is "sodomy," DADT is a VERY good policy.
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Old 06-01-2010, 08:18 PM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
37,443 posts, read 61,352,754 times
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Originally Posted by joey2000 View Post
...
Where in there does it equate homosexuality to sodomy? Sincere question, I don't know even if it does offhand.

PS if engaging in oral sex is "sodomy," DADT is a VERY good policy.
The word 'homosexual' is not in the UCMJ.

Sodomy is the crime and it is defined by the UCMJ: genital-to-genital contact is allowed, but any other genital contact with any other part of a body for sexual gratification is not allowed.

I did 6 years of Military Law Enforcement, I have my own copy of the UCMJ, I enforced it for part of my career [two tours].

People assume that all homosexuals are doing 'it' all the time, therefore committing sodomy everyday.

The homosexuals that I served with were fine so long as they kept their doing 'it' far away from on-base. Just as the married guys did.

Nobody is allowed to commit sodomy while they are in the service. No heterosexuals, no homosexuals and not even submariners.

The UCMJ does not make any separate conditions for your internal mindset, it only focuses on physical actions.

Homosexual/heterosexual/other are mental, not physical. You can not out-law mental outlooks.

You can outlaw physical actions.
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Old 06-01-2010, 08:22 PM
 
Location: Indianapolis
2,294 posts, read 2,659,983 times
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OK, so if one says "I am gay," which would be the change, how would you prove he or she is committing sodomy? As a cop, would you even try?
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Old 06-01-2010, 08:40 PM
 
Location: Hawaii
1,707 posts, read 7,032,466 times
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It's a mute point at the moment anyway with Congress and the President wanting to allow gays to serve openly; no one is being discharged.
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Old 06-01-2010, 08:52 PM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
37,443 posts, read 61,352,754 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Knox Harrington View Post
OK, so if one says "I am gay," which would be the change, how would you prove he or she is committing sodomy? As a cop, would you even try?
Before DADT I personally never saw anyone who said that. They kept it underground.

I have heard of people who were caught 'red-handed' while in the performance of the crime, they were busted.

After DADT, three times I saw people admit to being homosexual and each time the person was processed out of the military for administrative reasons, they were not charged with any crime.

I have never caught anyone in the act of sodomy. So I have never written anyone up for that crime.

If I were doing LEO duties again, and if someone were to admit to me that they were a homosexual, under DADT I would remind them that they are not supposed to tell anyone. If they insisted that they were saying it to get out, I would advise them to speak with their chain-of-command to process them out.
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Old 06-01-2010, 09:49 PM
 
3,650 posts, read 9,209,220 times
Reputation: 2787
Quote:
Originally Posted by forest beekeeper View Post
The word 'homosexual' is not in the UCMJ.

Sodomy is the crime and it is defined by the UCMJ: genital-to-genital contact is allowed, but any other genital contact with any other part of a body for sexual gratification is not allowed.
And good luck enforcing that.

Military intelligence
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