U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Wisconsin > Milwaukee
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 11-06-2007, 10:45 AM
 
Location: Metro Milwaukee, WI
3,198 posts, read 11,975,132 times
Reputation: 2229

Advertisements

So, obviously a big, big chunk of news for the greater Milwaukee metro area lately has been the impending merger between Miller Brewing Company and Molson - Coors; Miller being headquartered here in Milwaukee (one of the biggest - if not the biggest - local corporate headquarters) and Coors being hq'd in Golden, CO...a suburb to Denver like Brookfield is to Milwaukee.

Eventually, it is logically assumed that once this merger is in place and finalized, the corporate operations will need to be merged to house one corporate hq's. Thus, most are assuming that headquarters will either be here in Milwaukee metro or in the greater Denver area.

There has been much talk recently about the very real possibility that the company would decide upon Denver/Golden and leave their hq's in Milwaukee behind. Surely, they would still maintain a large presence in Milwaukee, however, the difference between a company with a corporate headquarters in a city and just a strong business presence in a city is enormous. It would be an absolute crusher to Milwaukee if the area would lose Miller as a corporate hq.

My question to fellow posters here...do you folks see positives for Milwaukee metro (over Denver metro) that would be appealing to the companies for selecting MKE over Denver? Because as much as I love Milwaukee metro, I frankly just am not seeing it (very regretfully); but maybe I am missing points.

Quality of life is a tough sell for Milwaukee v. Denver, even though QOL would be one of Milwaukee's likely selling tactics - Denver has the Rockies, more sunshine, more favorable year-round weather, etc. They have a much bigger airport, and while they have more traffic, they are still a manageable metro area.

Economically, this seems to be an area where now Milwaukee - and WI in general - will see more proof that being so anti-business in its governance can / will bite us in the backside. Taxes are much lower - both for the individual as well as for companies - in Colorado, things like unions (which are very pricey to employers) aren't as big in the west (Coors in not unionized and Miller is currently), etc.

It seems like Mayor Tom Barrett and Governor Jim Doyle now sort of realize that our state's economic practices and attitudes towards businesses are driving business away, and thus their preemptive "strike" of flying out to Denver to meet with Coors execs...peculiar behavior unless we know that we are on the short end of the stick considering that Miller is bigger than Coors (yet I have not seen the Governor of CO / Mayor of Golden or Denver flying here).

It seems some of our biggest selling points are proximities to cities - Chicago (major US city) and Montreal (Molson hq) - but that is kind of sad (selling your city / region by noting proximity to other cities).

This isn't to run Milwaukee metro down. Obviously I live here and I love it. But I am having a hard time finding reasons why Milwaukee will not lose this vital corporate headquarters. But I may be missing items...what are some selling points of Milwaukee metro for the HQ over the Denver metro area?
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 11-06-2007, 12:16 PM
 
Location: Bay View, Milwaukee
2,525 posts, read 4,767,270 times
Reputation: 3490
Quote:
Originally Posted by EnjoyEP View Post

My question to fellow posters here...do you folks see positives for Milwaukee metro (over Denver metro) that would be appealing to the companies for selecting MKE over Denver? Because as much as I love Milwaukee metro, I frankly just am not seeing it (very regretfully); but maybe I am missing points.
Unfortnately, I'm not seeing it, either, EP. Though I would choose Milwaukee for the HQ, Denver has so many advantages in terms of business climate. One of the things that might sway in Milwaukee's favor is its greater proximity to MillerCoors consumers, but I have a feeling this doesn't matter so much.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-06-2007, 12:33 PM
 
Location: Metro Milwaukee, WI
3,198 posts, read 11,975,132 times
Reputation: 2229
The only other thing I could guess would work in Milwaukee's favor, quijote, would be that Milwaukee is the home of Miller who is clearly the bigger company currently. However, again, it doesn't seem like that is being factored in as a big deal, as voting shares will be distributed equally, and the first CEO is going to be a guy from Coors.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-07-2007, 01:15 AM
 
279 posts, read 701,053 times
Reputation: 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by EnjoyEP View Post
My question to fellow posters here...do you folks see positives for Milwaukee metro (over Denver metro) that would be appealing to the companies for selecting MKE over Denver?
__________

No
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-07-2007, 09:47 PM
 
Location: Oak Creek, WI
115 posts, read 760,804 times
Reputation: 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by EnjoyEP View Post
The only other thing I could guess would work in Milwaukee's favor, quijote, would be that Milwaukee is the home of Miller who is clearly the bigger company currently. However, again, it doesn't seem like that is being factored in as a big deal, as voting shares will be distributed equally, and the first CEO is going to be a guy from Coors.
As a percentage of revenues, SABMiller has the larger share at 58%. I have no idea if that would make any difference. I think a major difference that will work against Milwaukee is that Coors has many more employees in the Denver area than Miller in Milwaukee. All else being equal, moving the HQ to Denver would probably require a fewer number of jobs moving than the other way around. Wisconsin's corporate tax rate is nearly double that of Colorado's, however it's not exactly apples to apples. In Colorado you have to account for the profits of the entire entity (i.e. the corporate parent) but in Wisconsin you only have to account for the profits for your actual Wisconsin locations. So while a company has a lower tax rate in Colorado, you potentially could have more income subject to taxation. Salaries and cost of living are also quite a bit less in Milwaukee than in Denver which would help offset tax rates and relocation costs.

It would be a major emotional blow to the city of Milwaukee and certainly tarnish its image by losing one of the area's iconic companies. From an economic standpoint however I'm not so sure this would be the major economic tragedy it might first seem. While certainly a larger employer in the area (and one of the most visible from a civic standpoint) at 1,700 employees (800 of which are corporate jobs) it doesn't even come close to being a top 20 employer in the area and I don't think it is even a top 50 employer in Wisconsin.

Does anyone know if the discussions about where to base MillerCoors are only on where the HQ should be? Do we know that even if the corporate jobs moved that the brewery would remain or is that "in play" as well? If the entire plant shut down I fear what the west side would look like in 10 years.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-07-2007, 11:38 PM
 
Location: Bay View, Milwaukee
2,525 posts, read 4,767,270 times
Reputation: 3490
Supposedly, according to reports I've read, the brewery in Milwaukee will remain open and operating. But of course, in the business world, that could last for just a few months or just a few years. I wouldn't be surprised if the Miller Brewery campus is condos and retail in about 20 years.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-08-2007, 09:44 AM
 
61,824 posts, read 52,951,602 times
Reputation: 18639
Quote:
Originally Posted by EnjoyEP View Post
So, obviously a big, big chunk of news for the greater Milwaukee metro area lately has been the impending merger between Miller Brewing Company and Molson - Coors; Miller being headquartered here in Milwaukee (one of the biggest - if not the biggest - local corporate headquarters) and Coors being hq'd in Golden, CO...a suburb to Denver like Brookfield is to Milwaukee.

Eventually, it is logically assumed that once this merger is in place and finalized, the corporate operations will need to be merged to house one corporate hq's. Thus, most are assuming that headquarters will either be here in Milwaukee metro or in the greater Denver area.

There has been much talk recently about the very real possibility that the company would decide upon Denver/Golden and leave their hq's in Milwaukee behind. Surely, they would still maintain a large presence in Milwaukee, however, the difference between a company with a corporate headquarters in a city and just a strong business presence in a city is enormous. It would be an absolute crusher to Milwaukee if the area would lose Miller as a corporate hq.

My question to fellow posters here...do you folks see positives for Milwaukee metro (over Denver metro) that would be appealing to the companies for selecting MKE over Denver? Because as much as I love Milwaukee metro, I frankly just am not seeing it (very regretfully); but maybe I am missing points.

Quality of life is a tough sell for Milwaukee v. Denver, even though QOL would be one of Milwaukee's likely selling tactics - Denver has the Rockies, more sunshine, more favorable year-round weather, etc. They have a much bigger airport, and while they have more traffic, they are still a manageable metro area.

Economically, this seems to be an area where now Milwaukee - and WI in general - will see more proof that being so anti-business in its governance can / will bite us in the backside. Taxes are much lower - both for the individual as well as for companies - in Colorado, things like unions (which are very pricey to employers) aren't as big in the west (Coors in not unionized and Miller is currently), etc.

It seems like Mayor Tom Barrett and Governor Jim Doyle now sort of realize that our state's economic practices and attitudes towards businesses are driving business away, and thus their preemptive "strike" of flying out to Denver to meet with Coors execs...peculiar behavior unless we know that we are on the short end of the stick considering that Miller is bigger than Coors (yet I have not seen the Governor of CO / Mayor of Golden or Denver flying here).

It seems some of our biggest selling points are proximities to cities - Chicago (major US city) and Montreal (Molson hq) - but that is kind of sad (selling your city / region by noting proximity to other cities).

This isn't to run Milwaukee metro down. Obviously I live here and I love it. But I am having a hard time finding reasons why Milwaukee will not lose this vital corporate headquarters. But I may be missing items...what are some selling points of Milwaukee metro for the HQ over the Denver metro area?
In a perfect world, Milwaukee needs the HQ for more jobs, but Denver would get the HQ more likely.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-08-2007, 12:25 PM
 
Location: Metro Milwaukee, WI
3,198 posts, read 11,975,132 times
Reputation: 2229
Good post Adam, I guess the one major thing I would respectfully disagree with (even though I follow where you are coming from) -

Quote:
Originally Posted by adam76 View Post
It would be a major emotional blow to the city of Milwaukee and certainly tarnish its image by losing one of the area's iconic companies. From an economic standpoint however I'm not so sure this would be the major economic tragedy it might first seem. While certainly a larger employer in the area (and one of the most visible from a civic standpoint) at 1,700 employees (800 of which are corporate jobs) it doesn't even come close to being a top 20 employer in the area and I don't think it is even a top 50 employer in Wisconsin.
I believe this would be a colossal blow to Milwaukee...more than probably people here even realize at this point.

You are completely right about the # of employees here - it isn't a gigantic figure (800 corporate and 900 brewery), however, blows would be much more severe than losing just the jobs (probably just 800, if we assume the brewery continues on).

A) Miller is one of the most major sponsors of an enormous array of events and entities in Milwaukee. This is just so absolutely critical in Milwaukee...much moreso even than in other cities because we are not huge and do not have a wide pick of large sponsors like Miller. Miller has just been a wonderful corporate sponsor (eg: helper) to all things Milwaukee for so long now, I don't think we even can fathom the impact of not having them around would be on so many other entities in Milwaukee (cultural events, sports events, festivals, etc. - these all in turn impact restaurants, hotels, tourism, etc.).

Sure, if Miller's HQs weren't here but the brewery still was, undoubtedly they would still do some of that. But it is just far, far greater when it is a headquarters than if it is just a hub. It is why companies like Harley matter so much more here than GE Medical (a large company but just a branch).

B) Milwaukee's good news recently has been the development of retail, restaurants, and residential. But the bad news has been business-related...the only companies moving in are coming from suburbs of Milwaukee (eg: Manpower)...it wasn't a big coup for the region to get the Manpower Corp. HQs Downtown as they basically just moved 5 miles down the road from Glendale. The tax climate and business climate in Milwaukee overall is bad, and despite the good news in the census showing an increased estimate, let's be honest - the population has been declining or flat in this whole metro for quite some time; not much is going to change with that...there will not be growth in the city or metro of any substance...unless business climate improves.

Having said that, a) Psychologically, as you noted, it would be just another crushing blow to the business climate perception here if one of the "big" Milwaukee corporate HQs such as Miller even left ("if even a staple like Miller leaves, who can be counted on to come in or stay??" - that line of thinking); I think that the big ones here are Miller, Harley, and Midwest, and with Midwest teetering away, if Miller left too...gee whiz. Moreover, b) It would show nationally that Milwaukee just can't compete with the "west" or a place like Denver...why would they consider moving a corp. HQs here? It would lay out the blueprint for others to just frankly cross Milwaukee off the list (if we could've even made the list in the first place).

C) Corporate HQs and jobs are kind of a snowball. If - say - you had our core, and we were able to somehow, someway land another big corporate entity, that would add to the base, people would pay more and more attention, "hey, Milwaukee is making some real strides and looks like a good place to be."

However, if a big current corporate HQs leaves, then it is that much harder to even just replace the HQs, much less get ahead.

I just think Miller's value to Milwaukee goes so incredibly far farther than the actual jobs itself. I really, really am concerned about what the departure could and would do to this city and area over the long term.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-08-2007, 08:40 PM
 
Location: Oak Creek, WI
115 posts, read 760,804 times
Reputation: 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by EnjoyEP View Post
I believe this would be a colossal blow to Milwaukee...more than probably people here even realize at this point.
Well the fact we have differed on the impact to the area illustrates an important intangible in all of this: that when it comes to matter such as these, perception IS reality. We could go back and forth all day on the scope of losing Miller, and how Miller relates to the area compared to other area HQ's like NML, Rockwell, SC Johnson, and Midwest Airlines. That might be overshadowed by the fact that if you asked 100 random people around the country "name a Wisconsin based company" probably half would say H-D and half would say Miller.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EnjoyEP View Post
C) Corporate HQs and jobs are kind of a snowball. If - say - you had our core, and we were able to somehow, someway land another big corporate entity, that would add to the base, people would pay more and more attention, "hey, Milwaukee is making some real strides and looks like a good place to be."
Yeah you're right, this is true, and probably goes along with the perception thign. Now it looks like I'm arguing against my last post . I am glad that Doyle and Barrett made a trip out to Denver to argue our case. It helps to hear first hand what Miller means to the community.

To go back to the original topic I can list a few good arguments to keep (or bring) an HQ to Milwaukee:

1) Plenty of affordable housing and overall low cost of living.
2) Relatively easy traffic gives easy access to all city services even from outer ring upper class suburbs.
3) Top colleges to incubate and retain talent (Marquette, MSOE, Madison close by)
4) A nice low hassle airport with a hub.
5) Milwaukee is a smaller city with only a few major HQs, from a community involvement and visibility standpoint, do you want to be a single voice among a choir, or do you want to be a "big deal" (in Wil Ferrell voice).

Milwaukee beats Denver in four these... I have no idea about colleges in Denver.

This would have been a bad year for the area if Airtran had succeeded. Two major "identity" companies going away? Eek.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-09-2007, 09:12 AM
 
Location: Metro Milwaukee, WI
3,198 posts, read 11,975,132 times
Reputation: 2229
Quote:
Originally Posted by adam76 View Post
To go back to the original topic I can list a few good arguments to keep (or bring) an HQ to Milwaukee:

1) Plenty of affordable housing and overall low cost of living.
2) Relatively easy traffic gives easy access to all city services even from outer ring upper class suburbs.
3) Top colleges to incubate and retain talent (Marquette, MSOE, Madison close by)
4) A nice low hassle airport with a hub.
5) Milwaukee is a smaller city with only a few major HQs, from a community involvement and visibility standpoint, do you want to be a single voice among a choir, or do you want to be a "big deal" (in Wil Ferrell voice).

Milwaukee beats Denver in four these... I have no idea about colleges in Denver.

This would have been a bad year for the area if Airtran had succeeded. Two major "identity" companies going away? Eek.
These are all great points, Adam; we need you out there selling MKE to HQs around the nation to try to woo 'em here! Seriously, there is so much pessimism and cynicism (from myself included) regarding this whole Miller thing, it is refreshing to see some good, tangible points noted here.

As for your point about Airtran, that is what really scares me - essentially, in its core, Midwest no longer is HQ'd here, it really isn't. And with Northwest being such a large investor now too, including the fact that the Midwest model is still shaky (especially with crude oil / gas prices continuing to go up), I fear Midwest's days as "Midwest" in Milwaukee still are numbered. Don't get me wrong...I am very thankful for Milwaukee's sake that it didn't go the AirTran route, however, I think the option kind of ended up being: a) consume a large dose of anthrax now, or b) get put on a remote desert island where rescuers don't know where you are / no communication / no food. Either one is probably going to end up killing you, but at least you seem to have a much longer window on the island! (OK, bad analogy time over with now).

But yeah, with the whole Midwest situation, that is what worries me even more now with Miller.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Settings
X
Data:
Loading data...
Based on 2000-2020 data
Loading data...

123
Hide US histogram


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Wisconsin > Milwaukee
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2021, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top