Milwaukee in top 20 cities for losing local U.S. residents (Green Bay: low crime, homes)

[nickerman]

Do you think that their leaving has anything to do with the spike in crime? Or maybe they see what is going to happen right around the corner soon and the same reason so many people are leaving the U.S. for foreign lands and changing their citizenship.

[brrabbit]

Originally Posted by Milwaukee City

1. Weather
2. Appeal of big cities like Chicago, New York and Los Angeles
3. Crime
4. Bad Schools
5.Very high property taxes

Also many people will move to Chicago or a New York taking the same job but with higher pay and not really taking into account of the higher cost of living. Thinking despite the higher cost of living they still would rather have the higher pay.

NYC is #2 in that same list... LA is also higher than Mke.
And no 1 is some very small place in Texas

[brrabbit]

Originally Posted by nickerman

Do you think that their leaving has anything to do with the spike in crime? Or maybe they see what is going to happen right around the corner soon and the same reason so many people are leaving the U.S. for foreign lands and changing their citizenship.

I don't think people are running from US on a large scale. I remember seeing an article that you cannot beat Uncle Sam, even if you denounce your us citizenship.

[brrabbit]

Originally Posted by Milwaukee City

1. Weather
2. Appeal of big cities like Chicago, New York and Los Angeles
3. Crime
4. Bad Schools
5.Very high property taxes

Also many people will move to Chicago or a New York taking the same job but with higher pay and not really taking into account of the higher cost of living. Thinking despite the higher cost of living they still would rather have the higher pay.

1) weather, yes. After coming from CA, I noticed that wisconsinites are envious of Californian weather to a degree of inferior complex. Especially during the winter and early spring. And nobody would want to hear that hot weather is not fun for all, neither winter is doom and gloom. People tend to dream about what they don't have or know and value what they do have or know for less.

2) maybe, but Milwaukee is a perfect size of a city. Not too big, not too small. And if you miss big crowds, Chicago is only 90 minutes away... But there definitely is something about it, be it a movie-created image, or opportunities of certain jobs not presented in smaller cities. Or just a desire to see and experience a new life style (especially among young people).

3) crime? What crime? Compare stats of crime between Milwaukee and any other major city. Crime per 100k is much higher there!

4) Mke schools are a mess, suburban schools are excellent though. LA or NYC also do have some good schools, but on average they aren't better than Mke ones.

5) rates are high, but property values are low. At the end, you pay about the same amount for 200k property here, or 600k property of equal size in LA.


Also many... Very true, been there, playing the opposite hand nowadays. If let's say you will make 20% more in a bigger city and your expenses would grow up same 20%, and assuming you earn more than spend and able to put some money aside for saving, you'd be able to put 20% more into your saving in a big city. But it's rare the case your incomes would grow as much as your expenses....

[Allan Trafton]

I think people need to read the article. It states metro area not the city. Also, it doesn't mean the area is losing population, just domestic out migration. New York City has grown by 300,000 residents since 2010, yet is 2nd on the list. Immigration and birth rate play a larger role.

Northern metro areas will always have a higher out migration due to weather and retirees moving to Florida and other warmer locals.

I don't think crime and schools play into this very much. Milwaukee Public Schools has less than 30% of the total metro student population, actually 50% of the city of Milwaukee student population attends a private school or suburban school. MPS factors into things much less than most realize. As far as crime, the metro area has a low crime rate and crime is generally located in inner city neighborhoods among poor blacks. The majority of the population has little crime issues.

The overwhelming majority of the metro population does not send it's children to bad schools or live in high crime areas.

Weather plays by far the largest role.


As far as moving to NYC, LA or other high prices glamor towns.. This is a select few who graduate from high end universities with special skills which enable them to make very large money and to move up quickly. This is a small select group. Not the tech school grads, or even UWM types. Maybe Wisconsin, Northwestern or Marquette. Over 90% of the young adults in Wisconsin do not have the backgrounds to make it worth their while to move to high prices, ultra competitive alpha cities such as NYC. Cities such as Green Bay, Milwaukee and Kenosha are better suited for them..

[MKEastsider]

Re: those "terrible" Milwaukee schools...

If people would bother to do their research, they'd know that some of the top rated public schools in Wisconsin are in MPS. MPS on the whole may have the same problems as most other large urban school systems, but if you're a parent who actually cares enough to be invested in your child's education, you can get them a quality education through MPS. Typically, parental involevment is the difference between good MPS schools and bad ones.

[Allan Trafton]

The last point on property taxes. Yes we get jabbed, but we live like fricking kings compared to many places. Anywhere in western Europe, Canada, anywhere decent in Asia and costal U.S. you pay a fortune. 700K gets you a middle class home, no joke. Here 700K and you live like the king of France. Lets try to keep this a secret, but we live better here than almost anywhere on earth.

[Allan Trafton]

Originally Posted by MKEastsider

Re: those "terrible" Milwaukee schools...

If people would bother to do their research, they'd know that some of the top rated public schools in Wisconsin are in MPS. MPS on the whole may have the same problems as most other large urban school systems, but if you're a parent who actually cares enough to be invested in your child's education, you can get them a quality education through MPS. Typically, parental involvement is the difference between good MPS schools and bad ones.

Fair enough, but as a Milwaukee parent of a recent high school grad and a Jr. in high school, I declined to send my kids to MPS and I looked into it. I don't regret it, but it cost me sending them to private schools, but I'm glad I did.

Lets be honest here. A high percent of the schools do not cut it and it's gotten worse due to skimming off of the top of students to private choice schools and open enrollment at suburban schools. Many suburban schools have seen major declines in enrollment and they are more than happy to find a way to get your child into their schools, assuming the child is well adjusted and a competent student.

What does this leave for MPS? Not much, except a handful of high achieving schools such as King, Reagan and a few others. School choice and open enrollment has turned MPS into a dumping ground for kids nobody else wants.

[Vegas_Cabbie]

Originally Posted by Allan Trafton

The last point on property taxes. Yes we get jabbed, but we live like fricking kings compared to many places. Anywhere in western Europe, Canada, anywhere decent in Asia and costal U.S. you pay a fortune. 700K gets you a middle class home, no joke. Here 700K and you live like the king of France. Lets try to keep this a secret, but we live better here than almost anywhere on earth.

For most people, high property taxes plays a factor.

Example...

I bought a home in Greendale in 2011 for $132k. Sold that home in 2013 for $140k. Was your basic starter home in a nice area.

In early 2014, I bought a home in an even nicer neighborhood in Vegas for $186k.

My property taxes on a $140k home in Greendale were $4000.
My property taxes on a $186k home in Vegas are $1600.

This means what I pay each month is the same between the two houses except I am living in a home that was built in 2011 and essentially maintenance free instead of a home built in 1938 with original windows and aging materials that were in constant need of replacement.

Southern Nevada and Arizona is loaded with former residents of states like Wisconsin (and Canadians).

You definitely get a break when initially purchasing a home in Milwaukee... But keep in mind that your mortgage will be inflated heavily by the taxes.

So for me, owning a home was basically the same long term cost for the life of a mortgage... But when I'm done with the loan, a home here will likely be worth considerably more in addition to my post-mortgage expenses of owning said home be much cheaper in a low-tax state.

If you are just looking at the up front cost of buying a home, you probably should stick to renting.

[Milwaukee City]

Property taxes were the #1 thing we looked at when buying a home. I absolutely love the Whitefish Bay, Fox Point, Bayside area but when looking at $6,500 a year of property taxes vs $3,000 in Mequon it made our decision easier and I did not want to move out of the city but the very high property taxes for a home anywhere from $250-$350 just seemed outrageous. There were so many nice homes on the upper and lower east side that would have been perfect but I'll save the dough and buy a boat instead.