Prominent Miller Brewing exec robbed then killed in MKE (Milwaukee: crime rates, home)

[EnjoyEP]

OK, by now everyone has heard of the news from the weekend.

A prominent, high-ranking Miller Brewing Co. executive was going to his car in Walker's Point at approximately 1am after hitting a local bar (for those that are not familiar, Walker's Point is a very popular nightlife spot for bars and restaurants in the trendy, growing 5th Ward area) and was robbed.

Reports are that he appears to have been cooperative in handing over his money, however, the robbers decided that the robbing wasn't enough, and shot and killed him.

Un-friggin-believable.

I would like to hear others' comments / thoughts, etc. on this senseless and tragic murder. All homicides are inane and pointless, however, this one was truly pointless and tragic. And when it relates to the whole will MillerCoors be headquartered in Milwaukee or in Denver debate, I think that this murder could profoundly impact the city and region as a whole. Then, if that one major corporate domino falls, that is just the first of the next falling dominos.

People in Milwaukee try to pooh-pooh this kind of thing away and say "well, it is really rare and could happen anywhere." However, a) I don't know how rare it is anymore sadly, b) perception is reality and the more stuff like this happens, the more perceptions grow, and c) this is an area that I would argue can most ill-afford incidents like this (where maybe a zooming-growth Sun Belt city could survive the hit a little easier).

I would love to hear others' thoughts / ideas / comments, however, this one really has me chapped. First, I am burned that this guy's life was needlessly and foolishly ended through no fault of his own - that could have been any of us. Moreover, I care deeply about Milwaukee and its future and stuff like this really burns me, and it does happen here more often than in many other cities more and more.

But maybe I am just fueled by emotion at this point. Anyone else with some thoughts?

Here are the articles:

JS Online: Miller executive was victim

JS Online: Man shot, killed in Walker's Point

[Drover]

1) It can happen anywhere. While I hate this as a blanket statement used to explain away higher crime rates in certain areas (as if the frequency of occurrence is irrelevant), on the face of it, it's true. And it will happen more often even in the nice parts of an inner city than in the outer suburbs. That's a calculated risk people ought to be aware of when determining whether to live in the city or not, even in a nice part of the city.

2) Something tells me this fellow was specifically targeted because the degree of his wealth was known.

3) I don't know enough about Milwaukee's crime trends to know if this type of thing is occurring more and more frequently even in the nice parts of town. If it is, then it's evidence of something that shouldn't really need evidence to address: crime is everyone's problem, not just those who have to deal with it day to day by virtue of living in bad parts of town. You ignore crime at your own peril, even if you think you're safe from it in a nice part of town or even in the suburbs; there is always a risk that crime will spread to where you live.

4) Maybe this is a formalistic argument, but I disagree with the notion that all homicides are pointless and inane. Those committed in legitimate self-defense or in defense against a home invader are justified.

[Empidonax]

I agree with Drover's comments.

Also, it's possible that this was a hate crime. The victim was gay and may have been in one of the many gay bars in that area.

[EnjoyEP]

Originally Posted by Drover

1) It can happen anywhere. While I hate this as a blanket statement used to explain away higher crime rates in certain areas (as if the frequency of occurrence is irrelevant), on the face of it, it's true. And it will happen more often even in the nice parts of an inner city than in the outer suburbs. That's a calculated risk people ought to be aware of when determining whether to live in the city or not, even in a nice part of the city.

While it is true that this kind of thing can happen anywhere - and does from time-to-time in big cities of all kinds - Milwaukee is too much hiding behind this and ducking its head in the sand because of this excuse. Instead of taking crime head-on ala New York City in the 1990s, we use this kind of "well, this can happen anywhere" bs type of attidue, duck our heads into the sand, and then wonder why the city has an image problem (that competes with the image of a growing, thriving revitalized Rust Belt City).

Moreover, with the robbery-turned-homicide of a Jimmy John's pizza delivery college kid last year and the robbery-turned-homicide of a Waukesha coach who was just fueling up at a gas station on Capitol Drive during the heart of daytime last year, this IS happening more often in Milwaukee than in many other big cities.

Here is another telling stat given in one of the articles:

"Denver, with a population of 568,465, reported 1,748 violent crimes, including 19 homicides, during the first six months of 2007, according to FBI data released this month. Milwaukee, with a population of 581,005, reported 3,984 violent crimes, including 50 homicides.

While it isn't fair to say that "well, if Denver can keep homicides low we should be able to too" as obviously every city/area has a different set of circumstances, it should be the attitude that this is something we need to a) acknowledge (that there IS a problem) and b) need to start really taking on very aggressively, instead of just pooh-poohing it off and saying "well, these incidents can happen anywhere."

Originally Posted by Drover

2) Something tells me this fellow was specifically targeted because the degree of his wealth was known.

I agree that these people realized he had money (probably how he was dressed / his car, etc.). And that is a big part of the problem.

This area is currently revitalizing. The 5th Ward. And to revitalize, you need folks that have money. Those are the folks that spend the money in the bars, restaurants, housing, shops, etc. They contribute economically the most to an area's revitalization.

Even if they are just visiting, they are the folks that most pump money into revitalizing.

Now, if folks with money realize that they are targets in this area, why in the world are they going to consider patronizing these businesses for entertainment, much less, consider living there? It'll chase them away and there goes any chance for revitalization.

Sure, it is easy to say that "well, they are letting the criminals win" and "folks need to not be afraid and take a stand." Blah, blah, blah I say. First and foremost, most folks want to go places where they'll be most safe, and darnit all, I cannot blame them one bit. While my bar-going days are waning, I used to patronize bars often on weekends until the wee hours. I wanted to be able to do so in places where I felt safe walking back to my car.

While I do not have anywhere near the fiscal properties I am certain this gentlemen did, I have gone to this exact area for nightlife many times before and spent money in these establishments. Now, even without wealth and driving an old crummy car, I am not so sure I would go there anymore.

And even if he was targeted for his wealth, that is one thing and something more affluent people have to deal with as kind of a part of life in more urban areas, however, it takes it to a whole 'nother level when he cooperates with the robbery and is STILL gunned down in cold blood.

Originally Posted by Drover

3) I don't know enough about Milwaukee's crime trends to know if this type of thing is occurring more and more frequently even in the nice parts of town. If it is, then it's evidence of something that shouldn't really need evidence to address: crime is everyone's problem, not just those who have to deal with it day to day by virtue of living in bad parts of town. You ignore crime at your own peril, even if you think you're safe from it in a nice part of town or even in the suburbs; there is always a risk that crime will spread to where you live.

I do agree somewhat, but you know, I get tired somewhat of this too. Lives are busy and stressful. I know in my own life (and this relates to many others), I am so busy with my job(s), paying bills, spending quality time with my kids, doing household chores, church, medical stuff, etc., etc., etc., that I have time primarily only for my immediate family...that isn't "selfish"...that is just life.

Most people are in this same spot. Taxes here are quite high, and we put them in faith towards professionals to help eradicate crime - aggressive law enforcement. Now, could law enforcement do anything here to have prevented this particular crime? Probably not. But I surely don't think there is anything that should show that other citizens could have done anything more either.

Originally Posted by Drover

4) Maybe this is a formalistic argument, but I disagree with the notion that all homicides are pointless and inane. Those committed in legitimate self-defense or in defense against a home invader are justified.

Well, sure, OK. I guess I am talking about the 99% of the rest of homicides. I was driving more at intent than to make a debate-correct blanket statement.

[adam76]

Another thing to think of here is that the man was from South Africa. Did his accent possibly lead the suspects to think that being a foreigner he was more vulnerable and that is why he was targeted? I wasn't aware the victim was gay so I hadn't considered that angle before. It is possible to be a hate crime.

This is one of those crimes that is difficult to deal with because a) it happened in an area of the city that many non-city residents actually go to and b) it appears to have been a truly random crime. I hate to spout the "it can happen anywhere" bit but, given its apparently random nature, it does hold some truth.

Regarding the comment about high taxes and law enforcement, we play volleyball at Fat Daddy's all summer and fall and cop cars are a common occurrence up and down the streets around the bars. Police presence will hold down aggregate crime in a particular area, but that does not mean crime will be zero. Just like the shootings at South Shore Park on Memorial Day a few years back does not keep us away from there, we will continue to play at Fat Daddy's.

Regardless of what will inevitably be said by MillerCoors mouthpieces, I can't help but think this won't play well in the boardroom discussions of where to locate the HQ. When a horrible crime happens to someone you know personally, there is no way it can't possibly change the minds of those who will make that decision.

[EnjoyEP]

Originally Posted by adam76

Regarding the comment about high taxes and law enforcement, we play volleyball at Fat Daddy's all summer and fall and cop cars are a common occurrence up and down the streets around the bars.

Again, I agree Adam...I don't think this is something that can in any way be blamed on law enforcement. That was the part of the point I probably inarticulately was trying to make.

But I think it is even tougher to try to make it a "the whole community just needs to come together" and "crime is everyone's problem" type argument here. That sounds all well and good hypothetically, but here, this guy was doing just that in theory too - he wasn't hiding out in a safe, suburban Wauwatosa-based bar, he was hanging out in a semi-grittier area. And paid the price with his life.

Originally Posted by adam76

Just like the shootings at South Shore Park on Memorial Day a few years back does not keep us away from there, we will continue to play at Fat Daddy's.

Hey, I respect that and I think that is great.

However, equally, I don't think you could blame someone if they tended to stay away from the area, and that is what happens.

This goes back to our forums' talk about the demise of Northridge Mall, other malls in the area, etc. When stuff like this happens - no matter how random, rare, or isolated - it STILL HAPPENS and people stay away then. Then the mall loses fiscally and things go to pot.

Then, you'll get people BLAMING the people staying away saying "it was (the violent crime) so rare, so isolated, you are foolish for staying away - it very likely never would happen to you." But I just can't go there.

I used to go to Northridge Mall even in its waning days and never had a problem, however, I couldn't blame people for staying away and wishing to go to areas they perceived or felt even safer in. Stuff did happen there. Was it as common as fears led on? Often not. But stuff still happened and I couldn't blame people for staying away.

The same thing holds true here. If other execs went down to Walker's Point over the next few weeks to bars, are the odds overwhelmingly strong that no incidents will happen? Yes. However, if they choose now to instead go to some areas they feel are safer like bars in Wauwatosa or Milwaukee's East Side instead, can anyone really blame them anymore?

Originally Posted by adam76

Regardless of what will inevitably be said by MillerCoors mouthpieces, I can't help but think this won't play well in the boardroom discussions of where to locate the HQ. When a horrible crime happens to someone you know personally, there is no way it can't possibly change the minds of those who will make that decision.

I agree 1000%, wholeheartedly, and thoroughly.

This is the exact point I was trying to make. Sure, to us citizens of the area, we can say all we want "this could've happened anywhere", etc. But we are biased. We live here.

When stuff like this happens though and execs who have no allegiances / ties to the Milwaukee area, why in the world wouldn't they take it into consideration?

Let's see, I am Johnny The Coors Exec. I see the much higher crime rates in Milwaukee then Denver - check. Then I see that one of Miller's execs was gunned down in cold blood in a fairly popular night life spot - check. Then I hear the rep that Milwaukee has gained a bit of having a crime problem - check. Those would all add up in my mind.

I am not saying it is necessarily 100% fair, but that is the reality. In a debate where we are probably already in the weaker position (Milwaukee v. Denver for MillerCoors), that really hurts in tipping the scales more. And the area feels the impact. Any time you lose a visible corporate headquarters it just hurts a region, especially a Rust Belt town that is trying to revitalize and re-image itself.

[Empidonax]

Though this incident certainly might help discourage SAB decision-makers from locating the MillerCoors hq in Milwaukee, I am cynical enough to presume that in spite of all of its strengths, Milwaukee lost that contest some time ago due to other (business-related) factors.

The sad irony of this incident, from a city-wide point of view, is that it probably is a manifestation of Milwaukee's revitalization and growing pains. It has been commented that Milwaukee itself is becoming very socio-economically polarized, with greater extremes of wealth and poverty. Perhaps in this unfortunate crime, the "two Milwaukees" clashed.

But something else to keep in mind is that, given the outrage and other reactions to this event, the Walkers Point area will probably be among the most well-patrolled places for a while. Though this murder will deter many people from visiting that neighborhood, the neighborhood will probably be much more safe at this point forward.

In any case, though the city will suffer from this, the victim's family, friends, and colleagues will hurt even more.

[Empidonax]

Someone on another message board says that, according to witnesses at the scene, the victim reached inside his coat after handing over his wallet. If this is credible, the perps may have thought the victim was reaching for a gun, but it seems that he was reaching for a cell phone instead.

[green_mariner]

This murder is sad, not only because it happened at all, but because this could cost Milwaukee dearly. Someone from Miller, a high-ranking official, isn't safe. The poorer you are, the more likely you are to be the victim of crime. Also, if this happens to a high ranking official of a major company, Miller Brewery(even in its bought-out state) might consider leaving Milwaukee. MKE has already lost other beer companies. It doesn't need to lose anymore jobs.

[EnjoyEP]

Originally Posted by quijote

Though this incident certainly might help discourage SAB decision-makers from locating the MillerCoors hq in Milwaukee, I am cynical enough to presume that in spite of all of its strengths, Milwaukee lost that contest some time ago due to other (business-related) factors.

I agree with you, quijote and you are probably right - the decision was probably already made. But yeesh, let's say there is a 10% chance it wasn't made yet, this sure didn't help.

Originally Posted by quijote

The sad irony of this incident, from a city-wide point of view, is that it probably is a manifestation of Milwaukee's revitalization and growing pains. It has been commented that Milwaukee itself is becoming very socio-economically polarized, with greater extremes of wealth and poverty. Perhaps in this unfortunate crime, the "two Milwaukees" clashed.

Agreed. I guess my real ire here is for the murder. Of course I would be irate about a robbery as well (being an illegal and immoral activity no matter how one slices it in class warfare), but OK, likely some lesser-income folks target a perceived "rich guy" and rob him. I get that, even though obviously we'd probably all strongly disagree with the behavior. But what I don't get is the murder - just like the Jimmy John's delivery guy last year in Riverwest or the Waukesha coach at the gas station in broad daylight on Capitol Dr.

Originally Posted by quijote

But something else to keep in mind is that, given the outrage and other reactions to this event, the Walkers Point area will probably be among the most well-patrolled places for a while. Though this murder will deter many people from visiting that neighborhood, the neighborhood will probably be much more safe at this point forward.

'Tis true, although with the Jimmy John's driver being murdered in the Riverwest area, and with the Waukesha coach being murdered on the NW side, we are starting to run out of places to boost patrols. The thugs may avoid Walker's Point now (for awhile) until the dust settles, but they won't rest...they'll just move on somewhere else.

Originally Posted by quijote

In any case, though the city will suffer from this, the victim's family, friends, and colleagues will hurt even more.

Absolutely. It just sickens me that this gentleman will not have a chance to continue his work, his life, etc., beyond age 43 simply because some thugs thought it a good idea to rob and murder him. It sickens me that his friends and family won't have an opportunity to know him anymore.

Just like it sickens me over the Jimmy John's college student / delivery fellow and the coach from Waukesha. Their family will never get them back.

I am not trying to be overly cynical or pessimistic. Typically, I find metro Milwaukee itself to be very safe - most of the suburbs here, even inner ring ones, are extremely safe. Downtown Milwaukee has become quite safe. I usually am opposite of folks overly-hyping crime in a city or area, but this is getting to be just too much.

This would've been an area - similar to the Jimmy John's incident (and heck, even the Waukesha coach incident on 39th and Capitol because it was broad daylight at a well-traveled gas station) - I would have felt was fairly safe. The murderous crime / violence is starting to become more common and that is just death to a city and its chances for growth / revitalization / influx of new population. I care deeply about the City of Milwaukee and the safety of its non-trouble seeking, law abiding citizens, and stuff like this absolutely needs to be attacked now. (These thugs, if caught, need to never see the light outside of a prison cell again for the remainder of their "lives").