Milwaukee Crime Documentary (neighborhoods, dangerous, guidelines)

[Empidonax]

Originally Posted by ISU-Josh

But Im not trying to be a jerk about this. If there really is a ten block stetch down there thats all within city limits, totally include it. I will admit I missed that in this situation. But you cant honestly expect me to include every random subdivison in the city thats caught between a couple of business parks lol.

Well, I took a look at the map for you, and if you combine Saveland, Tippecanoe, and Town of Lake-- none of which is broken up by jagged boundaries with suburbs-- you have more than a 10 x 10 area.

And this involves lengthy blocks, not the shorter blocks found in the central city.

Another 10 x 10 area of this sort is Morgandale combined with the Wilson Park area.

The areas that get tricky with jagged borders between Milwaukee and Greenfield are found: (1) between Morgan, 27th, Howard, and 43rd; and (2) W. Forest Home, 43rd, Cold Spring, and 60th. So okay, eliminate that.

With those sections out of the way, you have the Jackson Park neighborhood with the equivalent of 10 long blocks wide and 10 long blocks long, though some of the neighborhood is occupied by.... the park. But if that doesn't satisfy the 10 x 10 criterion, you can combine Jackson park with Fairview to the west and get a really nice chunk of residential land bordered by Forest Home, 43rd, Arthur/Cleveland, and 71st.

To the west of that is a large chunk of residential area bordered by 71st, Oklahoma, 100th, and Howard. It contains short blocks as well as long blocks and complies with 10 x 10.

So, on the south side, barring the confusing, jagged border between Milwaukee and Greenfield-- and not counting Bay View--there are four 10 x 10 (or greater) zones (collections of neighborhoods) that are "low-crime."

With Bay View, that makes it five qualifying south side neighborhoods/amalgams.

I hope that helps.

[ISU-Josh]

Originally Posted by Empidonax

Well, I took a look at the map for you, and if you combine Saveland, Tippecanoe, and Town of Lake-- none of which is broken up by jagged boundaries with suburbs-- you have more than a 10 x 10 area.

And this involves lengthy blocks, not the shorter blocks found in the central city.

Another 10 x 10 area of this sort is Morgandale combined with the Wilson Park area.

The areas that get tricky with jagged borders between Milwaukee and Greenfield are found: (1) between Morgan, 27th, Howard, and 43rd; and (2) W. Forest Home, 43rd, Cold Spring, and 60th. So okay, eliminate that.

With those sections out of the way, you have the Jackson Park neighborhood with the equivalent of 10 long blocks wide and 10 long blocks long, though some of the neighborhood is occupied by.... the park. But if that doesn't satisfy the 10 x 10 criterion, you can combine Jackson park with Fairview to the west and get a really nice chunk of residential land bordered by Forest Home, 43rd, Arthur/Cleveland, and 71st.

To the west of that is a large chunk of residential area bordered by 71st, Oklahoma, 100th, and Howard. It contains short blocks as well as long blocks and complies with 10 x 10.

So, on the south side, barring the confusing, jagged border between Milwaukee and Greenfield-- and not counting Bay View--there are four 10 x 10 (or greater) zones (collections of neighborhoods) that are "low-crime."

With Bay View, that makes it five qualifying south side neighborhoods/amalgams.

I hope that helps.

Ok. Let's say youre 100% right. Now youve got ten total neighborhoods in the whole city without at least one shooting or stabbing or armed robbery a month. Still not a good look for the city. Not exactly evidence for the city being a safe place overall.

Its true that most of Milwaukee isnt as bad as 3rd and Keefe, but mostneighborhoods in the city are bad enough to be at least considered sketchy. Pretty much any neighborhood off Silver Spring alllll the way down to Oklahoma has 2 to 3 shootings a month at least. And thats from like 95th all the way to 1st

[Empidonax]

Originally Posted by ISU-Josh

Ok. Let's say youre 100% right. Now youve got ten total neighborhoods in the whole city without at least one shooting or stabbing or armed robbery a month. Still not a good look for the city. Not exactly evidence for the city being a safe place overall.

The objective was never to "prove" that Milwaukee is a safe city "overall," as you pre-empted that in your first post. The objective, however, seemed to be to show that Milwaukee has 5 "safe" neighborhoods that meet your specific size and zoning requirements. That was your stated goal--and not one that I shared, but I agreed to play along. Why not?

It's interesting that your first goal was to name five "safe" neighborhoods; now you say that isn't enough. You keep moving the goal posts.

If your goal is to prove that Milwaukee is definitively and roundly and without exception an unsafe city, I imagine you'll keep changing the criteria in your quest until you're able to support your goal with the clearest evidence possible. You will not be alone in that line of thinking--many people deem Milwaukee as a whole unsafe. But there are many, myself included, who see things a little differently.

Its true that most of Milwaukee isnt as bad as 3rd and Keefe, but mostneighborhoods in the city are bad enough to be at least considered sketchy. Pretty much any neighborhood off Silver Spring alllll the way down to Oklahoma has 2 to 3 shootings a month at least. And thats from like 95th all the way to 1st

That isn't entirely accurate, as I've pointed out already.

Like I pointed out in previous posts, most of the safe neighborhoods are along the periphery. There are a few in the city's interior, but they're not necessarily 10 x 10 neighborhoods. And don't forget that the stretch of land from Silver Spring to Oklahoma is broken up by some significant industrial space, so the crime doesn't stretch allllllll the way down, like you say.

[ISU-Josh]

Originally Posted by Empidonax

The objective was never to "prove" that Milwaukee is a safe city "overall," as you pre-empted that in your first post. The objective, however, seemed to be to show that Milwaukee has 5 "safe" neighborhoods that meet your specific size and zoning requirements. That was your stated goal--and not one that I shared, but I agreed to play along. Why not?

It's interesting that your first goal was to name five "safe" neighborhoods; now you say that isn't enough. You keep moving the goal posts.

If your goal is to prove that Milwaukee is definitively and roundly and without exception an unsafe city, I imagine you'll keep changing the criteria in your quest until you're able to support your goal with the clearest evidence possible. You will not be alone in that line of thinking--many people deem Milwaukee as a whole unsafe. But there are many, myself included, who see things a little differently.



That isn't entirely accurate, as I've pointed out already.

Like I pointed out in previous posts, most of the safe neighborhoods are along the periphery. There are a few in the city's interior, but they're not necessarily 10 x 10 neighborhoods. And don't forget that the stretch of land from Silver Spring to Oklahoma is broken up by some significant industrial space, so the crime doesn't stretch allllllll the way down, like you say.

I give you credit for at least admitting that Milwaukee is not an overall safe city, even if we disagree on our definition of what a neighborhood is. Theres like 7 guys on this forum alone though that feel they have to jump into every thread on Milwaukee crime amd speak condescendingly to anyone who suggest Milwaukee isn't safe. I forget their exact names but like 3 of them have Milwaukee in their name. I was more targeting those dudes.

[Empidonax]

Originally Posted by ISU-Josh

I give you credit for at least admitting that Milwaukee is not an overall safe city, even if we disagree on our definition of what a neighborhood is. Theres like 7 guys on this forum alone though that feel they have to jump into every thread on Milwaukee crime amd speak condescendingly to anyone who suggest Milwaukee isn't safe. I forget their exact names but like 3 of them have Milwaukee in their name. I was more targeting those dudes.

I understand the frustration, but I don't see the need to "target" anyone unless you really want to have a conversation in good faith. You have your beliefs and they have theirs, and usually on forums, people don't successfully convince each other to change views.

In terms of my own views: I think Milwaukee has a disproportionate amount of crime, but I do think it is generally safe in most places during the day. During the evening, for residential purposes, my list gets shorter, but that's because a lot of crap happens at night.

There are some neighborhoods where I do not care to enter into at all (at any time of day), but there are some sketchy neighborhoods that don't bother me at all during the daytime. The old Polonia neighborhood and surrounding Latino quarter is scary for some people, but I find it to be mostly fine. Riverwest, Harambee, and many areas on the north side or near-north side are fine during the day.

It's important to remember that most of the people in the high-crime areas are actually good and pretty nice people. In many of these places, there are quite a few evil people, and quite a few okay people who commit crimes of opportunity. But for the most part, the "bad" and sketchy neighborhoods are just places where most people are trying to live, enjoy life, and make ends meet.

[ISU-Josh]

Originally Posted by Empidonax

I understand the frustration, but I don't see the need to "target" anyone unless you really want to have a conversation in good faith. You have your beliefs and they have theirs, and usually on forums, people don't successfully convince each other to change views.

In terms of my own views: I think Milwaukee has a disproportionate amount of crime, but I do think it is generally safe in most places during the day. During the evening, for residential purposes, my list gets shorter, but that's because a lot of crap happens at night.

There are some neighborhoods where I do not care to enter into at all (at any time of day), but there are some sketchy neighborhoods that don't bother me at all during the daytime. The old Polonia neighborhood and surrounding Latino quarter is scary for some people, but I find it to be mostly fine. Riverwest, Harambee, and many areas on the north side or near-north side are fine during the day.

It's important to remember that most of the people in the high-crime areas are actually good and pretty nice people. In many of these places, there are quite a few evil people, and quite a few okay people who commit crimes of opportunity. But for the most part, the "bad" and sketchy neighborhoods are just places where most people are trying to live, enjoy life, and make ends meet.

Agreed. To me a sketchy area would be like pretty much anything along Silver Spring. Silver Spring is by no means hood. Its not even remotely comparable to the dangers of Burleigh. But its bad enough. One must watch his back when walking or evn driving through a lot of times. Youre probably safe right on Silver Spring itself even at night but wouldn't be a great idea to start roaming the side streets after like 7 pm or so. And I feel like that's the cstegory most Milwaukee neighborhoods fit into

[Milwaukee City]

Harder's Oaks is a very underrated area, small but nice area.

[jmurr]

What a shame. I can remember , as a young man, dating a girl attending Marquette University. I was from out of state and we would wander around the great city with her pointing out the highlights. Now it is just another city with out of control violence. Shame.

[thefragile]

Originally Posted by jmurr

What a shame. I can remember , as a young man, dating a girl attending Marquette University. I was from out of state and we would wander around the great city with her pointing out the highlights. Now it is just another city with out of control violence. Shame.

Thanks for the worthless post.

[chiociolliscalves]

Originally Posted by thefragile

Thanks for the worthless post.

THe most worthless post was the one where the poster, in way too many words, stated, essentially: "Sure, most of Milwaukee is dangerous, but not all of it!" Thanks, bud. The same can be said of every single other high-crime city in this nation.Your clarification was positively invaluable!