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Actually, if we had a better transit system, cars would not need to be used for everything.
I don't think you're going to convince most people to give up their cars. Sorry, but if I have an option to go downtown and get there in 10-15 minutes in my car, or take a bus and get there in an hour+ (which is how long it takes from where I live), I think I'll take the 10-15 minute method. What if I want to go to Bayshore or if I have some business in Whitefish Bay. A round trip would take a total of 3-4 hours on a bus. Unrealistic.
How can we convince more people that they aren't (because I don't think they are), and that they should support mass transit over driving their automobiles?
Well, I happen to live in Whitefish Bay, and I take the 15 or the 10 to get pretty much anywhere I need to. Sure, the travel time is a little longer to get from A to B, but I don't have to worry about car maintenance, parking, car insurance, looking for gas, road rage, and a myriad of other things associated with owning a car. By the way, both the 15 and the 10 lead right to Bayshore. Speaking of Bayshore, it's not very cyclist friendly . . . because of all the CARS there. They've got massive parking structures, massive parking lots, curbside parking, and like two bicycle racks. It's a great place, but I would like it to be more cyclist-friendly.
Anyway, to build on what EnjoyEP said, I don't think Milwaukee's roadways' capacities need to be expanded anymore, because 1) metro congestion isn't that bad and 2) expanded roadways seem to encourage urban sprawl. I would like Milwaukee to be a densely populated city. BTW, that's why I don't think I-94 should be expanded to four lanes.
Sorry, but if I have an option to go downtown and get there in 10-15 minutes in my car, or take a bus and get there in an hour+ (which is how long it takes from where I live)
I think people need to be convinced to support improved transit options, so that you don't have to take an hour-long bus trip to get downtown, but rather a trip that doesn't take you much longer than it would to drive.
I think people need to be convinced to support improved transit options, so that you don't have to take an hour-long bus trip to get downtown, but rather a trip that doesn't take you much longer than it would to drive.
Under what scenario would that happen? Be specific. Adding more buses would not reduce the trip time. I used to take the Freeway Flyer when i worked downtown. It STILL takes a long time
Under what scenario would that happen? Be specific. Adding more buses would not reduce the trip time. I used to take the Freeway Flyer when i worked downtown. It STILL takes a long time
Well, that's why I started this thread, in order to consider alternative options to driving, which leads to expanded roadways.
Here are some issues to consider:
-How should the left over $91 million of federal money the county received in 1991 be used for local transportation options?
-The Milwaukee Connector: Tom Barrett's plan or Scott Walker's?
-Milwaukee's suburbs: Do we need commuter rail between them and the city? If so, which suburbs need lines?
-Should MCTS be controlled by a regional transit authority?
-Will a high speed rail line between Milwaukee and Madison really contribute economically to the region?
As you can see, there are many issues pertaining to mass transit we should consider. I started this thread to consider them. Maybe that should have been the first post . . .
In response to the huge quarrel over mass transit recently, I would like to gauge the general opinion about Milwaukee's transit crisis right now.
First of all, does anyone even want improved mass transit? According to journalists like Kevin Fischer, who appears on the PBS panel discussion, Interchange, and who also blogs for the Journal Sentinel's Franklin affiliate, additional investment in mass transit would waste money, since nobody would use it. Therefore, spending money on any improvement towards mass transit, including the existing system, would contrast with people's needs. I wonder what anyone has to say about his opinion.
I'll ask additional questions later, so that this thread can focus on one thing at a time.
Nobody wants public transporation. The bus system is fine as it is, to cart around the people who ride it: Students, indigents, loons, blacks, and babushka-wearing old ladies from the south side. We're happy here in the suburbs with things just the way they are. Driving is easy in Milwaukee. Swing the Buick onto the Bypass, point the hood ornament towards downtown, and float that magic carpet into my parking garage at the office, all within a half an hour. Life is good.
Milwaukee is doing fine. It isn't growing at a breakneck pace, but it's growing all right, you better believe it, especially out here in the suburbs. The city is for rich empty-nesters, wackos, students, indigents, loons, blacks, and babushka-wearing old ladies on the South Side. And city employees. Those weird and poor people can all take public transportation if they want to, but out in the suburbs, if we want to go somewhere, we just drive there. Simple as that. Some of our neighbors work for the Great Local Employers™ in Waukesha County, like GE Medical and Quad/Graphics, and they can float to work straight down Highway 16. Traffic? What traffic.
Yes, the city is for tourists, rich empty-nesters, wackos, students, indigents, loons, blacks, and babushka-wearing old ladies on the South Side. And city employees. And people who drive through on their way somewhere else. And once in a while we might go down there for dinner but not often. There's plenty to do right in this area.
Far as I'm concerned, things are great. Only a short drive to the Great Local Employers™. Plenty of land and a big house. Everything is within arm's reach, only a short car-trip away. Far away from the tourists, rich empty-nesters, wackos, students, indigents, loons, blacks, and babushka-wearing old ladies on the South Side. Never did want a city job. The Bypass goes right to the airport when we fly to Vegas every October. Don't go to Chicago much, just the same thing with more traffic. We don't need public transportation, we don't need wackos, blacks, and indigents coming out to Franklin, and we certainly don't need to ride a bus. And a lot of The Great Local Employers™ are out in the suburbs anyway. And they don't hire loons, rich empty-nesters, or indigent people, so nobody needs to take a bus or a train to get to them.
This area has it all. Museums, tourism is great 3 months a year, we have conventions, flags, festivals, a RiverWalk, a nice lakefront, a ballpark, and a zoo. I'm not sure why there aren't as many Great Local Employers™ as there were before, but my job is totally secure so who cares. My kids went to college, they'll be fine. I'm not sure why they didn't come back here after college but kids will be kids. They both live in Chicago. I heard about the Miller thing, they might move. I don't work for them, not my problem. My Great Local Employer™ isn't affected. We don't need Miller. There are other jobs. Where one business leaves, another always takes its place.
Visited the kids in Chicago last weekend. What a nightmare. Sat in a ten minute delay on the Edens. Took US-41, I'll drive another hour to avoid that tollway. Paid $60 for parking. Sixty dollars! One of my kids doesn't even have a car, she's turning into one of those city wackos who takes public transportation. I went with her on the train. I was surprised, it wasn't full of bums or black people though. Chicago is much different. Normal people live in the city, people with kids and dogs. My daughter said that a lot of people don't have cars. They need all of that transportation because they keep growing. They have high taxes but for some reason employers stay. Guess I could always go there if my Great Local Employer™ left Milwaukee. That won't happen, they've got everything right here in Milwaukee. And I've got everything I need right here in Franklin. Things are great. Public Transportation? That's for wackos, students, indigents, loons, blacks, and babushka-wearing old ladies on the South Side. And Chicago people.
Yaaa, Wisconsin is a special place. It ain't broke, so what's to fix? We like life right here in Franklin, thank you very much. Don't need tax dollars going to transport those loons, blacks, and bums around all day long. Just ten years until retirement from my Great Local Employer™. They'll be here in ten years, guaranteed, they're a local company, and they don't fix what isn't broke either. There are plenty of people here who have kids. Some of the kids stay here so Milwaukee grows fine. I heard we're getting another festival. And I just bought a new Buick. Life is good.
----------------------------
Yes, I'm being very sarcastic. Milwaukee needs to step it up a notch. I don't live there anymore, but I like the city. It always seems as if Milwaukee chooses the status quo. "Things are OK, not great, but they could be worse."
But they could be much, much better. I'd rather see Milwaukee move towards being a small Chicago, rather than a big Kenosha. With the crime, the widespread ghetto, and the ambivalent business climate, it seems to be leaning towards the latter. I'd hate to see that happen. Building condos and restaurants helps, but growing the number of employers is necessary, and Milwaukee hasn't been doing a great job of that. And Manpower doesn't count; they moved only a few miles. The whole area needs to do better. I recognized it when I lived there, and being from elsewhere now, I recognize it even more than before.
Last edited by 43north87west; 05-28-2008 at 11:31 AM..
Nobody wants public transporation. The bus system is fine as it is, to cart around the people who ride it: Students, indigents, loons, blacks, and babushka-wearing old ladies from the south side. We're happy here in the suburbs with things just the way they are. Driving is easy in Milwaukee. Swing the Buick onto the Bypass, point the hood ornament towards downtown, and float that magic carpet into my parking garage at the office, all within a half an hour. Life is good.
Milwaukee is doing fine. It isn't growing at a breakneck pace, but it's growing all right, you better believe it, especially out here in the suburbs. The city is for rich empty-nesters, wackos, students, indigents, loons, blacks, and babushka-wearing old ladies on the South Side. And city employees. Those weird and poor people can all take public transportation if they want to, but out in the suburbs, if we want to go somewhere, we just drive there. Simple as that. Some of our neighbors work for the Great Local Employersâ„¢ in Waukesha County, like GE Medical and Quad/Graphics, and they can float to work straight down Highway 16. Traffic? What traffic.
Yes, the city is for tourists, rich empty-nesters, wackos, students, indigents, loons, blacks, and babushka-wearing old ladies on the South Side. And city employees. And people who drive through on their way somewhere else. And once in a while we might go down there for dinner but not often. There's plenty to do right in this area.
Far as I'm concerned, things are great. Only a short drive to the Great Local Employersâ„¢. Plenty of land and a big house. Everything is within arm's reach, only a short car-trip away. Far away from the tourists, rich empty-nesters, wackos, students, indigents, loons, blacks, and babushka-wearing old ladies on the South Side. Never did want a city job. The Bypass goes right to the airport when we fly to Vegas every October. Don't go to Chicago much, just the same thing with more traffic. We don't need public transportation, we don't need wackos, blacks, and indigents coming out to Franklin, and we certainly don't need to ride a bus. And a lot of The Great Local Employersâ„¢ are out in the suburbs anyway. And they don't hire loons, rich empty-nesters, or indigent people, so nobody needs to take a bus or a train to get to them.
This area has it all. Museums, tourism is great 3 months a year, we have conventions, flags, festivals, a RiverWalk, a nice lakefront, a ballpark, and a zoo. I'm not sure why there aren't as many Great Local Employersâ„¢ as there were before, but my job is totally secure so who cares. My kids went to college, they'll be fine. I'm not sure why they didn't come back here after college but kids will be kids. They both live in Chicago. I heard about the Miller thing, they might move. I don't work for them, not my problem. My Great Local Employerâ„¢ isn't affected. We don't need Miller. There are other jobs. Where one business leaves, another always takes its place.
Visited the kids in Chicago last weekend. What a nightmare. Sat in a ten minute delay on the Edens. Took US-41, I'll drive another hour to avoid that tollway. Paid $60 for parking. Sixty dollars! One of my kids doesn't even have a car, she's turning into one of those city wackos who takes public transportation. I went with her on the train. I was surprised, it wasn't full of bums or black people though. Chicago is much different. Normal people live in the city, people with kids and dogs. My daughter said that a lot of people don't have cars. They need all of that transportation because they keep growing. They have high taxes but for some reason employers stay. Guess I could always go there if my Great Local Employerâ„¢ left Milwaukee. That won't happen, they've got everything right here in Milwaukee. And I've got everything I need right here in Franklin. Things are great. Public Transportation? That's for wackos, students, indigents, loons, blacks, and babushka-wearing old ladies on the South Side. And Chicago people.
Yaaa, Wisconsin is a special place. It ain't broke, so what's to fix? We like life right here in Franklin, thank you very much. Don't need tax dollars going to transport those loons, blacks, and bums around all day long. Just ten years until retirement from my Great Local Employerâ„¢. They'll be here in ten years, guaranteed, they're a local company, and they don't fix what isn't broke either. There are plenty of people here who have kids. Some of the kids stay here so Milwaukee grows fine. I heard we're getting another festival. And I just bought a new Buick. Life is good.
Oh, I get it... you didn't see the rest of it where I said I was being sarcastic (I added that after the fact).
I wrote that as if I was an average guy in Franklin, which was the community mentioned in whatever expert said that there wasn't a want/need for public transportation. Anyway it was probably more clear to me when I wrote it than it would be to anyone reading it now.
So ANYWAY...
My point is, NO, there is not a "want" for public transportation in a lot of areas. Nor is there a need. A lot of people in the Milwaukee area consider public transportation as something there for others, but they wouldn't use it. *(Read poor people, black people, That Weird Guy Who Rides the Bus All Day, some students, and a handful of others.)
My personal point of view is that public trasportation IS needed. It is needed to lure those Great Local Employers, that are only great until they pack up and leave. It is needed to curb freeway crowding, while not bad now, when it gets bad, it will be too late. It is needed to make sure that the city is a contender rather than a has-been like Kenosha. Obviously this is an extreme viewpoint, but somewhere in the middle, there has to be something besides just the clunky bus system.
Finally, if I used the word "our", I think it's because part of me still considers the few months that I live in Milwaukee each year, to be part-time residence, although I'm not a resident of the state. Therefore, I take liberties that a resident would take in bashing what I consider "my" state, even though it's not.
I'm unsure if this made sense, but it makes great sense to me. And one last thing. I was a radio DJ for several years, I have done editorial work, and I'm a quintessential blowhard higher-up IT director. Translation: I have lots to say, I expect that people follow my instructions, and I have the fingers, with which my thoughts are carried forward expeditiously.
FWIW.
Last edited by 43north87west; 05-28-2008 at 06:16 PM..
Oh, I get it... you didn't see the rest of it where I said I was being sarcastic (I added that after the fact).
I wrote that as if I was an average guy in Franklin, which was the community mentioned in whatever expert said that there wasn't a want/need for public transportation. Anyway it was probably more clear to me when I wrote it than it would be to anyone reading it now.
So ANYWAY...
My point is, NO, there is not a "want" for public transportation in a lot of areas. Nor is there a need. A lot of people in the Milwaukee area consider public transportation as something there for others, but they wouldn't use it. *(Read poor people, black people, That Weird Guy Who Rides the Bus All Day, some students, and a handful of others.)
My personal point of view is that public trasportation IS needed. It is needed to lure those Great Local Employers, that are only great until they pack up and leave. It is needed to curb freeway crowding, while not bad now, when it gets bad, it will be too late. It is needed to make sure that the city is a contender rather than a has-been like Kenosha. Obviously this is an extreme viewpoint, but somewhere in the middle, there has to be something besides just the clunky bus system.
Finally, if I used the word "our", I think it's because part of me still considers the few months that I live in Milwaukee each year, to be part-time residence, although I'm not a resident of the state. Therefore, I take liberties that a resident would take in bashing what I consider "my" state, even though it's not.
I'm unsure if this made sense, but it makes great sense to me. And one last thing. I was a radio DJ for several years, I have done editorial work, and I'm a quintessential blowhard higher-up IT director. Translation: I have lots to say, I expect that people follow my instructions, and I have the fingers, with which my thoughts are carried forward expeditiously.
FWIW.
Haha, I figured you were being sarcastic....but I'll admit I was a little worried that you were being serious when you kept talking about black people, wackos, etc. What a relief you weren't! Well, I'm a full-time resident & I definitely think we need better transportation. Widening the freeways doesn't really work, it's not like we've got traffic jams like L.A. does. I agree that it would make Milwaukee a contender, get away from that old-school, "I fear change" mentality. I'm one of those people who take the bus, although not every day, & I can assure all those people out there, I'm COMPLETELY normal & so are a lot of others who take it. Personally, I consider the "weirdos" an added bonus to my ride....kind of like a half-time show
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