Milwaukee vs. Minneapolis (Madison, Oregon, Columbus: fit in, home, neighborhoods)

[TheManWithoutQualities]

I'm wondering if anyone familiar with both cities can give me a little advice.

I'm a young professional (27) male - bisexual, white, progressive, with a MA degree - who is applying to law schools this fall for fall 2009. Anyway, I'm originally from Southern New England (near NYC) and lived in NYC as a college student. Since then, I've lived in more than a few places....and have been out in Los Angeles for the past 2.5 years. Really dislike Los Angeles (the superficiality of the culture, the need to drive everywhere, etc. - though I do like the climate).

Anyway, having lived in several distinctive US regions (New England, Middle Atlantic, Deep South, Northwest, California), I have a decent sense of what I'm looking for... in the past couple of years, I've discovered the upper midwest (MN and WI) and really love it - I can easily see myself settling up there.

I'm applying to a few different law schools but in all likelihood, it's going to end up a choice between several schools in the Twin Cities and Marquette in Milwaukee (with an outlying chance, I'll head back to Oregon or Washington state or further south in the midwest, like Kansas City or St. Louis).

I've been to both cities though I've spent a good deal more time in Minneapolis than Milwaukee (I'll be visiting both at different points this summer).

Anyway, I'll sum up my current "evaluation" of both cities and hopefully, people will let me know if I'm making any sense.

Minneapolis (pros):

1.) I think it's a really attractive, livable city with very nice people

2.) I think it's probably a bit more cosmopolitan than Milwaukee, which appeals to me (being close to the Guthrie, a great music scene, etc. appeals to me)

3.) Demographically more in sync with my lifestyle (young professionals, students, etc.)

4.) More educational/vocational options.

5.) Beautiful parks.

Minneapolis (cons):

1.) My understanding is that the climate is worse than Milwaukee (if marginally)

2.) Geographically isolated - I'm not that outdoorsy (though I'd love to visit a lake cabin some summer); weekend trips for me are usually urban adventures. Minneapolis isn't really close to many other cities.

Milwaukee (pros):

1.) I was educated at a Jesuit high school and would like to return to a Jesuit school to cap off my education - thus, Marquette has a certain appeal.

2.) Having lived in NYC and LA, I'm not wanting to live in too big of a city but I do like Milwaukee's proximity to Chicago

3.) I didn't mind Milwaukee's grittiness and I liked it's compact downtown.

4.) Wisconsin law school grads (UW - Madison or Marquette) don't have to take the WI bar. That's a real advantage.


Milwaukee (cons):

1.) My understanding is that Milwaukee is not really comparable to Minneapolis in terms of cultural amenities.

2.) Or professional opportunities, post-grad (though Marquette does monopolize legal externships in the area given that it's the primary law school)


Anyway, does my "analysis" seem radically far off? I probably won't be deciding till early next spring but I like to do early prep work.

Thanks!

PS - I posted on the Minneapolis board too.

[EastSideMKE]

I think you sound pretty spot on with a few exceptions. Milwaukee does definitely lack the opportunities of places like Mineapolis, Denver, or Portland but that's because it's not a boom town like the others I listed. Milwaukee has one of the most stable econimies in the nation and it is not subject to the same downturns being experienced in high growth areas of the West and South. Milwaukee I believe has the largest park system of any city in the country, so that shouldn't be an issue. As far as culture is concerned it depends on your definition. Both have fine arts like opera, ballet, orchestras, theater, museums, zoo, etc. MPLS has the second largest theater district besides Broadway in NYC, so in that regard they have more culture. MPLS is also a major concert destination, but Milwaukee has Summerfest every year which is the largest music festival in the world with over 1,000,000 attendees every year. Milwaukee is also close to Chicago and Madison which each offer something totally different. MPLS is not close to any other major cities unless you call Fargo major.

[Milwaukee Ronnie]

I've never lived in the Twin Cities, but quite a few of my friends from college are from there or live there, due to the tuition reciprocity agreement between Wisconsin and Minnesota. I've been to the Twin Cities more often than any other major city aside from Chicago and Milwaukee, so I'm familiar enough with it to know my way around up there.

Probably the biggest difference between Milwaukee and the Twin Cities is that the Twin Cities' metropollitan area is fully twice the size of Milwaukee's. It's simply a bigger city, which means more amenities, more jobs, more traffic, more people, etc.

The Twin Cities have a lot to offer, and I personally wouldn't have much of a problem living there. But I wouldn't neccessarily say that Minneapolis has "more" culture or is "more progressive" than Milwaukee. Like everything in life, it all depends on who you ask, and what you're looking for.

Does Minneapolis have more arts and theater "culture" than Milwaukee? Unquestionably, yes. Does that mean that if you live in Milwaukee you're deprived of the best shows, the best concerts, the best cultural scene? No. Does that mean that if you live in Minneapolis you're more "plugged in" to what's happening culturally? Not neccessarily.

I wouldn't worry about finding a good legal job in Milwaukee, especially if you graduate from Marquette. Milwaukee is home to seven Fortune 500 companies, and a number of major firms such as Quarles & Brady and Foley & Lardner. When you graduate from Marquette, you're part of a very tight network of law graduates and you will find a good job. On the downside, however, Marquette's law school basically has no "name" outside of Milwaukee.

[Midwesterns45]

it sounds like minneapolis would be more for you...
i wouldn't choose a city based on its geographic location or climate, although minneapolis is to the extreme with being isolated and having a nasty climate during the winter months. ( STILL MILWAUKEE GETS MORE SNOWFALL)

you have to remember that milwaukee is more of an industrial city that served a purpose as being a port because its location next to lake michigan and minneapolis is now a city of the arts and minneapolis has more neighborhoods

[Empidonax]

Unless you feel like you'll have a lot of free time, and unless you really know which state you want to live in for the next few decades, I would advise you simply to pick the best law school for your needs.

I sense that both Mke and Mpls will have the basics of culture, etc., that you want, but you probably will be too busy studying law and living within your student/law bubble to really care so much about city details. Unless you plan to study part time, you're going to a law school that happens to be in a city--you're not really going to a city that happens to have a law school. If the difference in venues were startlingly great--Minneapolis versus Champaign/Urbana, for instance--then sure, it would be good to consider specifics about the city's strengths and weaknesses. But for the most part, considering how busy you'll be, it won't make too much of a difference whether you're in Mpls or Milwaukee or Columbus or Indianapolis. What will really matter is the education and university experience.

Some questions you should really ask yourself (and find answers for): Which school offers the best curriculum for your needs? Do you prefer traditional or innovative teaching styles, and which schools meet those needs? How do the schools do with summer internship placement and post-grad job placement? Do U of Minnesota grads get jobs in Milwaukee? Do Marquette grads get jobs in Minneapolis?

Do the law schools and affiliated universities offer the support systems that you'll need in order to thrive both personally and professionally? In other words, how are social/professional networks? Student clubs and organizations? Other support such as campus health care? Counseling? Library hours and services? Career guidance? If at all possible, visit the campuses and check them out. Talk to people and see how you "fit in."

But ultimately, unless you know where you want to live in the future, pick the best school for your needs--I gather that means a school that will give you clout and the preparation you need whether fate takes you to Mpls, Mke or wherever else. In the meantime, you'll have no problems filling your down-time with things to do in either city. Much of your time will likely be spent hanging out with other law students anyway, so you'll find things to do and have fun. In the meantime, focus on the education first, worry about where you'll settle as you develop and see what's out there.

[wanderlusting]

Go to Mpls, you won't like Milwaukee.

[radraja]

It's a close call. The one reason why I would pick Minneapolis over Milwaukee is because it's more socially liberal...there will be a stronger gay/bi scene. Milwaukee can actually be somewhat socially conservative (and Marquette is a conservative campus).

And on a similar note, I'd suggest looking at schools in Portland and Seattle. Both are really liberal/gay friendly cities, but have a much milder climate than the midwest (if you say you like CA weather, I have a feeling you won't like the climate here...it gets even colder than New England).

[EastSideMKE]

Originally Posted by wanderlusting

Go to Mpls, you won't like Milwaukee.

<Mod cut: off topic / personal / pointless>

The city of Milwaukee is actually larger, with 602,000 people, than Minneapolis and Saint Paul combined, with only 280,000 in each city. Milwaukee lacks really big suburbs like most other big cities have. That can be good or bad depending on your tastes. The Twin Cities have 3.5 million people versus 1.8 million in Greater Milwaukee. However 950,000 of those live in Milwaukee County.

I currently live in Denver but to me when I go back to Milwaukee, it FEELS more like a big city to me. Let's take a look at Denver for instance. We have 550,000 people in our consolidated city and county and 2.5 million in our metro. That's a proportion of 1 to 5, city to suburb ratio, compared to Milwaukee's 1 to 2. That's comparable to NYC which has 8 million in the city and 18 million in the metro only on a much much smaller scale.

Another notable fact is Milwaukee is much more diverse than Minneapolis. Milwaukee is 45% white, 40% Black, & 15% Latino compared to Minneapolis which is 60% white, 19% Black, & 10% Latino. The Twin Cities do have more Asians though.

[TheManWithoutQualities]

"Milwaukee is also close to Chicago and Madison which each offer something totally different. MPLS is not close to any other major cities unless you call Fargo major."

Yeah, that's definitely a big concern for me....

[TheManWithoutQualities]

"
I wouldn't worry about finding a good legal job in Milwaukee, especially if you graduate from Marquette. Milwaukee is home to seven Fortune 500 companies, and a number of major firms such as Quarles & Brady and Foley & Lardner. When you graduate from Marquette, you're part of a very tight network of law graduates and you will find a good job. On the downside, however, Marquette's law school basically has no "name" outside of Milwaukee."

I think that's true....that said, if I don't get into U of MN, the 3 other schools in Minneapolis also have a very "regional" profile.