Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
What I don't understand is, if life for blacks in Milwaukee is really so bad, why do they stay in Milwaukee? (And this question really can apply to anyone who is entrenched in poverty when opportunity lies elsewhere.) Milwaukee grew in the 19th and 20th centuries, in large part because Italians, Irish, and other nationals were fed up with poverty and mistreatment back home. Many faced difficulties when they got to Milwaukee, but most did okay with determination and hard work.
So why, in the case of blacks in Mke, entrenched in poverty and other problems, do they stay? It should be pretty obvious by now that good jobs will not simply materialize out of the blue for them; the leaders around here have been trying to ramp up the economy for decades, but there's barely been any growth in the metro overall. Milwaukee is great for people with opportunity, but why aren't the impoverished here flocking to boomtowns such as Las Vegas and Phoenix? Heck, and it rarely occurs to many Americans--white or black--to try to emigrate to other countries where life could be better: Dubai is booming, as is Bangalore.
Yet even though there are places of opportunity in the United States and in other countries, people remain in communities where things are only getting worse? I agree that things are terrible for most blacks in Milwaukee right now, but things aren't getting any better; we may even be entering another recession right now. Do people stay because they really think that things are somehow going to get better?
I realize that many impoverished people may have come to think of Milwaukee as "their home," even despite all of the problems. But sometimes you just have to let it go and move on. If it's better elsewhere, then disenchanted people should consider relocating. BTW, during the Reconstruction and Industrial eras in the U.S., thousands of blacks migrated from the South to cities like Milwaukee, Chicago, Detroit. What happened to that drive? The economic magnets now are out west and in the southwest.
I'm not being flip or facetious. I'm just wondering why people stay put in places where life just gets worse and worse--especially when there are other options.
If you are impoverished, have no job, and no money, how can you afford to move out? If you're spending every dollar you have on the basic necessities of life, how are you going to get the money to leave & do the travelling to find a job or a place to live in another city? People STAY because they don't have the resources to move. & now, there is a reverse migration going on where blacks are moving back to the south, which also has become an economic magnet within the past 15yrs. But if you don't have the resources & money to move, you have to stay where you are until you can figure out a way to leave.
If you are impoverished, have no job, and no money, how can you afford to move out? If you're spending every dollar you have on the basic necessities of life, how are you going to get the money to leave & do the travelling to find a job or a place to live in another city? People STAY because they don't have the resources to move. & now, there is a reverse migration going on where blacks are moving back to the south, which also has become an economic magnet within the past 15yrs. But if you don't have the resources & money to move, you have to stay where you are until you can figure out a way to leave.
I can see this argument for the people who are among the most *severely* impoverished, but not all poor people (that is, federally classified as poor) live in such dire, hardscrabble conditions. Madison has a stronger economy than Milwaukee does, and a Greyhound bus ticket costs something like $20, if that. Other locales farther afield cost little more than that.
In the 19th century, when blacks were technically (though not de facto) freed from slavery, thousands moved long distances to better opportunities elsewhere. I highly doubt that most of those people were less poor (after decades of slavery!) than many legally considered poor today. As with other migrant patterns, people who established themselves in new locales helped out family and friends who were left behind. I know this still happens with some poor people.
The case of the severely poor is one thing, but the next rungs up are a little different. I suspect that many of the poor are enmeshed in a consumer culture that they cannot truly afford, so the money they do save up goes toward stuff that's constantly marketed to them: clothes they don't need, cigarettes, snacks, liquor--the things that wealthier people also buy. In fact, not all blacks in the central city are technically poor. The poverty rate is high, but not exclusive. Many people in the central city have some kind of car, buy non-essential foods, purchase household accessories, and some even own their own home. Many of these residents could, with some effort, make inexpensive but important changes, such as relocate. I know it would surprise many of us to consider it, but with the exception of any central city's severely poor, the "better off" poor people and the people who live above the poverty line have a higher standard of living than poor people in most other places around the world.
Yet, with the exception of the severely poor, many poor people with some resources, as well as many people above the poverty line, make choices that keep them in Milwaukee, one of the most segregated cities in the country.
Is it simply the case that these people are all clamoring to leave but cannot? I doubt it. Is it also simply the case that some blacks would rather buy a few things they don't really need, rather than save the money for a more transformative purpose? So what else helps to explain the fact that many people in the black underclass have priorities other than saving every last quarter or dollar for a bus ticket out of here?
Is it simply the case that these people are all clamoring to leave but cannot? I doubt it. Is it also simply the case that some blacks would rather buy a few things they don't really need, rather than save the money for a more transformative purpose? So what else helps to explain the fact that many people in the black underclass have priorities other than saving every last quarter or dollar for a bus ticket out of here?
You ask some very good questions! I can only explain to you what I know and have seen from my own experiences, so please bear with me. If I am wrong about this, someone else may be able to explain it to you better.
From what I have seen & experienced from growing up in inner city of Milwaukee until my late 20's, is that a lot of people were not taught the value of a good education or the value of saving money growing up, unlike myself. (this is true in a lot of inner cities not just Milwaukee) People were not taught that they have to save money for a rainy day, or taught that education is the key to a successful future. If no one is teaching you how important these things are & you have no examples around you, you're not going to know how, which in turn starts a generational cycle of this. You have to WANT to learn these things & want to better yourself. This will in turn screw up your priorities because you think you can't do any better & you just end up going with the flow & living in the moment. I KNEW & was taught that that there was better out there, so therefore I wanted to do better for myself. As for saving money to leave, some people from my old neighborhood there have no clue how to go into a bank & start a checking/savings acct, & some have no more than a 9th grade education because they were never taught how important these things are. I hope this made some sense.
You ask some very good questions! I can only explain to you what I know and have seen from my own experiences, so please bear with me. If I am wrong about this, someone else may be able to explain it to you better.
From what I have seen & experienced from growing up in inner city of Milwaukee until my late 20's, is that a lot of people were not taught the value of a good education or the value of saving money growing up, unlike myself. (this is true in a lot of inner cities not just Milwaukee) People were not taught that they have to save money for a rainy day, or taught that education is the key to a successful future. If no one is teaching you how important these things are & you have no examples around you, you're not going to know how, which in turn starts a generational cycle of this. You have to WANT to learn these things & want to better yourself. This will in turn screw up your priorities because you think you can't do any better & you just end up going with the flow & living in the moment. I KNEW & was taught that that there was better out there, so therefore I wanted to do better for myself. As for saving money to leave, some people from my old neighborhood there have no clue how to go into a bank & start a checking/savings acct, & some have no more than a 9th grade education because they were never taught how important these things are. I hope this made some sense.
I agree somewhat and kudos to you for being one of few. How many generations does it take for a group of people to realize that they are not going to get anywhere in this society by shunning education, staying poor, and being ignorant? Why does someone have to be taught something that really is common sense? If you don't have common sense to know that 1) Not doing well in school is going to put you at a severe disadvantage in this society and in Milwaukee; 2) Being ignorant your whole life is not a way to accumulate wealth, earn a decent living, be respected, respect yourself, and respect others; 3) Everybody (including other ignorant black people) are sick of ignorant black people; 4) Being ignorant makes you as undesirable as a skunk. The only people who hang around you are those like you who feel they have no choice; and 5) The only way that you are going to make something of yourself is through your own efforts, then how can you be "taught" anything? Generations have shown a tendency to take the low road WHEN GIVEN A CHOICE. As Muhammad Ali said while in exile, "The problem is not in the place, it's in the people." I think the problem is in the people, people who don't believe in self-motivation. How can self-motivation be taught?
I also think Milwaukee is a city that tolerates complacency.
....a lot of people were not taught the value of a good education or the value of saving money growing up, unlike myself. (this is true in a lot of inner cities not just Milwaukee) People were not taught that they have to save money for a rainy day, or taught that education is the key to a successful future.
I think you're very right about this. Many poor people are poor, not just because they don't have much/any money, but also because they don't have good money management skills and a corresponding set of values (education) that favors financial strategies, saving, and long-term planning.
There are many things in our society keeping poor people from getting a better grasp of finances, and you certainly name many of them. Education is key, but in the face of other forces (peer pressure, sex, drugs, family problems, etc.), it's often a hard sell.
Unfortunately, in U.S. society, people with middle-class and high incomes do little better with their finances. The personal savings rate in this country is negative, meaning that people collectively have more debt than assets. Even many well educated people mistakenly think that a high income equals wealth; many such people spend everything they earn, and purchase other things on credit. In effect, many people have a lot of money flowing through them, but it doesn't stay with them and accrue interest; it goes to consumerism and creditors. A person making $20,000, $50,000, $100,000 or more per year may have collected nice cars, clothes, restaurant dinners, etc., but that person is likely not to have money set aside for retirement, emergencies, and other savings projects.
With role models like that in the higher income classes, how can poor people get the message that spending $5 on non-essential items (take your pick: lottery, cigs, booze, manicure, unnecessary clothing, junk food, etc.) is equivalent to foregoing $5 plus interest in savings? (And throw in the health costs of junk food, cigs, etc., and the $5 spent is even greater than $5 plus interest.)
In the economic reports broadcast regularly on the radio, the newscasters announce whether "consumer spending was up" or down recently. We're supposed to cheer when the spending is up, but unfortunately, that's what keeps a lot of people poor. (Yet that's what keeps a lot of people employed, so they can go out and spend all of their money....and so on.)
You ask some very good questions! I can only explain to you what I know and have seen from my own experiences, so please bear with me. If I am wrong about this, someone else may be able to explain it to you better.
From what I have seen & experienced from growing up in inner city of Milwaukee until my late 20's, is that a lot of people were not taught the value of a good education or the value of saving money growing up, unlike myself. (this is true in a lot of inner cities not just Milwaukee) People were not taught that they have to save money for a rainy day, or taught that education is the key to a successful future. If no one is teaching you how important these things are & you have no examples around you, you're not going to know how, which in turn starts a generational cycle of this. You have to WANT to learn these things & want to better yourself. This will in turn screw up your priorities because you think you can't do any better & you just end up going with the flow & living in the moment. I KNEW & was taught that that there was better out there, so therefore I wanted to do better for myself. As for saving money to leave, some people from my old neighborhood there have no clue how to go into a bank & start a checking/savings acct, & some have no more than a 9th grade education because they were never taught how important these things are. I hope this made some sense.
Your post hit the nail right on the head. I grew up and lived on the north side until I was 16. I don't think anybody in my old neighborhood had a checking account. People cashed their checks at those check cashing places and got money orders. It is a generational thing and if the parents don't know, how can they teach their children? It was up to me to teach myself (about credit, checking account, financial aid, etc.) or get help from people who knew what they were doing. Also, there's also such a huge level of distrust that people really don't know who to turn to. Anyway, I'm rambling now but this is an excellent post.
Everybody (including other ignorant black people) are sick of ignorant black people
Im sick of ignorant people period,not just the black ones.Just who do you mean when you say ''everybody?''I dont like the way you worded this.As if blacks have some sort of monopoly on ignorance.
Because I dont think white folks have the right to complain about black poverty and ignorance when they have done so much to help create it,and keep it in place,and most have done nothing whatsoever to help fix it,and the few that have attempted to help can only do much when the rest of thier people still think its ok to do nothing about mass institutional racism.Put a band aid over a gaping chest wound from a 357 bullet and you can sort of see what Im talking about.
Unless youre concerned with fixing the problem,I dont want to hear who youre tired of.Alot of white people will sure complain about black folks but wont say a damn thing about the damage thier hundreds of years of greed,oppression and discrimination has caused the black community.
Last edited by brewtown12; 09-18-2007 at 04:10 PM..
Education is key, but in the face of other forces (peer pressure, sex, drugs, family problems, etc.), it's often a hard sell.
.
Education is important,but it wont help an educated black person much if the labor market is so biased they would hire a white criminal before they would hire him/her.Blacks need to think on a more racial level,and create businesses with the intent of providing jobs for other blacks.As long as we depend on a white based labor market the masses will languish in poverty while a chosen few are ''hired'',and thus given the opportunity to work and become a productive member of society.America is racist,and we need to stop pretending that its getting better or will ever get better because it wont,and it only hurts blacks by falling into this illusion.we dont have enough jobs,and many of the ones extended to us do not pay a livable wage.The only way to fix this is to do what whites do,arabs do,asians do,etc.Create business,and give members of your ethnicity/racial group preference in coming into your business.
^^^^We also need to spend our dollars with each other whenever possible,educate our own children(create our own schools) and basically segragate from white society.You cant ever ever successfully intergrate with a people who view you as undesireable or benieth them(or pretend that the masses of thier race dont).America has shown us that.
This is the only way that blacks will advance on a wide scale level.
Im sick of ignorant people period,not just the black ones.Just who do you mean when you say ''everybody?''I dont like the way you worded this.As if blacks have some sort of monopoly on ignorance.
Because I dont think white folks have the right to complain about black poverty and ignorance when they have done so much to help create it,and keep it in place,and most have done nothing whatsoever to help fix it,and the few that have attempted to help can only do much when the rest of thier people still think its ok to do nothing about mass institutional racism.Put a band aid over a gaping chest wound from a 357 bullet and you can sort of see what Im talking about.
Unless youre concerned with fixing the problem,I dont want to hear who youre tired of.Alot of white people will sure complain about black folks but wont say a damn thing about the damage thier hundreds of years of greed,oppression and discrimination has caused the black community.
Yes, I am fully aware of the history of white oppression. It has been argued and presented ad nauseam. However, I believe very strongly in self-help, self-reliance, honor, character, discipline, high academic achievement, and so forth. White oppression does not affect the effort that is required to cultivate and enhance these qualities? Never before has there been so many ways to earn a degree, a Masters or PhD. Top universities are screaming for qualified black people in the fields that I mentioned, fields traditionally shunned by blacks. I live near San Francisco, an area heavily populated by asians. They face discrimination and institutional racism as well. Their history in this country may not be wrought with as severe a subjugation and continued persecution, but they feel a sting as well. What is their reaction? They pride themselves on respecting their parents, respecting education, and embracing top academic achievement. They embrace classical music, an extremely positive and self-empowering musical form. They support each other, respect each other. They spend an enormous amount of time, show great discipline and perseverance in obtaining top academic honors. This leads to admission in the best universities in this country (pushing out qualified whites in places previously dominated by whites), where they excel in fields valued by any educated person. With their stellar credentials, they are in high demand. They make enough money to pick and choose where they live so that they can raise their kids in the manner that they were to continue the positive cycle. The respect that they derive from whites is EARNED and demanded by implication! It is implied that these people who are getting all the high paying jobs, who are your doctors, lawyers, engineers, computer scientists, and so forth command respect without marching or yelling or getting mad. Black people can learn a lot from this. I don't make excuses and my focus is on the black race and what black people can do to help themselves in spite of racism that will always exist. Racism will ALWAYS exist and all that black people (collectively) can do is change the response to it. This has NEVER been done. Not my problem that we differ here. Again, there are many blacks who have done as I suggested but not enough to offset the negative qualities of those who aren't.
When I applied to law school, I told a compelling story. I grew up in a high crime area outside Chicago. Most of my childhood friends are either dead or in jail. I played the violin and used to fight to keep it from being taken away from me. Daily fist fights at school. Parents divorced. Parents didn't finish high school. We were poor. We moved to Milwaukee. More fights, more distractions. Quality of school wasn't that good, but I got into college. Severe isolation. White students didn't respect black students. 3 out every 4 black students were flunking out before second year. Tough, unyielding academic environment, a hostile one too. I was the first one in my family to go to college. But I emerged with a degree in Computer Science. No company in Milwaukee would hire me. I responded by preparing to leave, to go to a better place. I enhanced my credentials further and when the call came, I was ready. I left Milwaukee for a place that needed my expertise and wasn't focused on race. I then built a career and a fortune.
I then met a Chinese woman, who is now in my study group. She told me her story. Her family was very poor and when she was a girl living in slave conditions off of mainland China, her father taught her how to swim late at night to avoid detection and severe punishment. She was being trained to swim to the mainland, under the cover of darkness, and threat of having a bullet put in her head. If she were to be discovered swimming, she would be shot on sight. But such was the chance she was willing to take to obtain freedom and a chance for a better life, for her and her family. One night, she made that effort, narrowly escaping detection. Others who attempted the journey that night weren't so fortunate and were killed. She made it to the mainland and eventually to America, where she lived in horrid conditions while working in a sweatshop. She worked ungodly hours, yet found the time to teach herself English. She eventually got a better job and was able to enroll in school to get her G.E.D. She then studied for college and got in, eventually earning her PhD in Biochemical engineering. She worked for a firm outside SF for some years before taking the LSAT and enrolling in law school. This is a remarkable woman. So don't you dare tell me who to focus on.
Last edited by LexusNexus; 09-19-2007 at 01:37 AM..
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I can only explain to you what I know and have seen from my own experiences, so please bear with me. If I am wrong about this, someone else may be able to explain it to you better. 
