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Demographics show an 2007 estimate of 40% black. That usually protends big problems.
So suppose someone had to work in MKE. How far do you have to go to get away from MKE? Is it possible to reasonably commute from those areas?
You don't have to leave the city of Milwaukee if you're looking for a high-quality and low-crime neighborhood to live in. In fact, some of the choice neighborhoods have black residents. Commute times vary depending on where in Mke you work. If you really don't want to live in the city, you have the usual choice of inner-ring and outer-ring suburbs, just like other metro areas.
You know, as a moderator on this forum, I had to sit there and think for several minutes on how I should even handle this thread - or do nothing.
I guess for now, I will do nothing. However, my friend, I do have to tell you that no matter how you feel, etc., basing a new thread around a premise like "40% of X-city is 'black' and this generally invites 'nothing but trouble' " is just a recipe for disaster on the CD Forums.
I could see this one getting ugly really quick.
However, I didn't find anything necessarily "delete"-worthy...quite...in your original post, so we'll let 'er go for now.
To your post...
Sure, there are many areas of the City of Milwaukee itself that are crime-ridden and areas that I wouldn't encourage most folks to live in. Having said that, there are *several* areas of Milwaukee that are still extremely nice to live in and very safe.
Offhand, I can think of areas like the Washington Heights, Lenox Heights, Far Northwest MKE (53224 zip), the Story Hill area around Miller Park, many portions of Sherman Park, the Mount Mary area, Bay View (and other areas on the eastern sides of Oklahoma Ave.), many portions of southern and southwestern Milwaukee (around Morgan and again, Oklahoma this time on the west side), portions of the 53213 zip (go to one side of 75th and Bluemound and your in a very nice portion of Wauwatosa...the other side, in an equally nice portion of...Milwaukee!), the East Side, the Third Ward, Downtown, etc., etc., etc.
Frankly, there are more *nice* portions of the City than *not nice*. Admittedly, there are some fairly horrific portions of Milwaukee, but that isn't nearly the *norm* that is often painted.
And if you want to find "very safe" or "very nice" burbs that aren't Milwaukee, one needs to literally only drive 2 or 3 miles to inner-ring extremely nice, safe burbs like Wauwatosa, Greendale, River Hills, Franklin, Menomonee Falls, Hales Corners, etc.
Milwaukee metro is extremely safe throughout; crime numbers get brought way, way down because of some especially horrific pockets in the city. Again though, these areas tend to be very localized, specific, and easily avoided.
Demographics show an 2007 estimate of 40% black. That usually protends big problems.
That is an asinine assertion. If you're going to infer superiority/inferiority based race, maybe you shouldn't demerit your own by improperly spelling the word 'portend'.
Beyond that, if people honestly think the entire city of Milwaukee is a cesspool of thugs, then the AM Radio Blowhards have won... There are plenty of spots within the city proper to get away from "ghetto and crime", in addition to each and every suburb.
EnjoyEP - I simply asked what I'm truly worried about. There is a large % black based on credible sources. And equally credible sources show a strong relationship between that number and violent crime. What that number doesn't show is distribution. Consider Compton vrs. Greater L.A. or Orange County as examples. So I felt the question was valid give the data "out there". Granted it does come with a lot of controversy. Given I may have to make a go/no go decision and don't want to come to town, only to have to turn around a claw my way out (at expense to an employer as well), I felt it neccesary to ask it as written. Hopefully to get fast and direct answers.
Ron Burgandy - It's not about race based superiority/inferiority, it's about what widely published numbers show, my aprehensions about such areas and my desire to avoid them. I don't listen to AM, so not sure what you are talking about. I'm at least 1500 miles away. If anyone has one, it's blacks. We have an African American president, and white flight is a real phenomenon.
40% is about 3x the national average. And Milwaukee is a "minority majority city" I believe. That *does* lean in a "higher than average crime" direction, for whatever underlying reasons.
If you actually have to work at avoiding such areas, well, then I'd say it's a place to avoid, wouldn't you?
Further, what good would living in say Fox Point (it's a wealthy area?) with a population of 7,000 and 99% richy rich if you are in a metro area of 1.5 *million* and there's a huge crime element... and you have to go work in it every day? That'd be as bad as living in Summerlin or Green Vally in Vegas and having to work downtown at Fremont Experience (which is an "experience" as I can say from direct experience.)
This is why S. Orange County *is* so expensive. The bad areas are 20-30 *miles* away near the south of L.A. Massive amounts of bufferage between Compton, for example. Both in distance and population figures. I see this as a *good* thing.
So, no insults intended, just looking for the direct and honest answer. As we write, I'm already mapping the statistics to a graphic map to try and characterize the various areas, so this isn't a "race bait" thread. It's a, "What's the truth? Is it a mini-Detroit?" Thread. And if it *is* a mini-Detroit, is there an avoidance strategy available. If not, then probably best to not make the move. Seems like a logical strategy to me. I'm tired of broken into homes and cars. Or vehicles flat out stolen. As well as at least one or two people I know being killed.
As for portend. Yeah, I make a lot of typos. Not the world's greatest typer. Especially when working fast.
EnjoyEP - I simply asked what I'm truly worried about. There is a large % black based on credible sources. And equally credible sources show a strong relationship between that number and violent crime. What that number doesn't show is distribution. Consider Compton vrs. Greater L.A. or Orange County as examples. So I felt the question was valid give the data "out there". Granted it does come with a lot of controversy. Given I may have to make a go/no go decision and don't want to come to town, only to have to turn around a claw my way out (at expense to an employer as well), I felt it neccesary to ask it as written. Hopefully to get fast and direct answers.
Hey man, no need to explain yourself to me. I was just being honest...I didn't find anything in your question / post necessarily worthy of deletion, etc., however, I was just being honest that the way you phrased your question, you were opening up yourself mightily to an ugly thread / some strong responses. And while I am not black, to be honest, I can see why some might find offense in the way you asked the question.
Having said that, I personally was not offended and loosely understand where you are going with your questioning. Hell, when I moved to Albuquerque, NM in 2003, my wife and I rented there for 6 months before buying a place a few miles away. And even then, we were *terrified* that our place (that we bought) was "in a bad area" - not due to race/ethnicities, but just due to where we were. We were terrified. So I do think that while I wouldn't base that as much on race as your question alluded to, I do understand the care and concern of safety / crime questions as related to living in a decent-sized big city.
Having said that, I *did* provide you some pretty straight-forward, fast info. If you look at the bulk of my response, you'll find some pretty good info there for many safe, nice areas of Milwaukee in which to live. Otherwise, if you really are still worried about safety, go to any of the (numerous) inner-ring suburbs of MKE and you'll find ultra-safety as well...Wauwatosa, Greendale, Hales Corners, St. Francis, Menomonee Falls, Elm Grove / River Hills (if you can afford them), many portions of Brown Deer, etc. These are all super-safe, nice, (just like so many of the portions of the city of MKE I gave to you) and are all literally minutes (a few miles) from MKE.
EnjoyEP - Oh, no worries. I agree. It's a pointed question, despite being based on data. I agree that it could get ugly fairly fast.
My home town originally is in N. Palm Beach County. But I'll be the first to say... go to West Palm Beach and you're risking a drive by. But in the 80's when I worked down there, it wasn't nearly as bad as the current post crack cocaine era situation. Just seems things have stepped up a notch in the past 7-10 years as far as problems go. (And I expect it to get worse before it gets better, given the current economy.)
Given my druthers I'd stay right here on the west coast or go to Hawaii. But... my profession isn't doing me well enough for that these days, LOL! Tropical + surf, for me, beats Urban + Snow anyday, LOL!
So how is ALBQ? Lived on Boulder/Denver for a while (first snow bound place I'd lived at since I was about 14...). Hated the snow and was considering ALBQ. But one gal I worked with swore that Boulder/Denver was nicer, despite the weather. (Though I wonder how her horse felt about it, since he had to stay outside! LOL!)
In any event, when the data is available I try to compile a map that lists the data, to get a feel for what's where. Housing price seems like a index as well for most areas. (I suspect that might fall apart on Manhatten Island and other "strange" places like that where abnormal densities figure in.)
This is true of so many point,I could see this thread being 27pages.!!!!
lets get one thing straight...NOT ALL OF MILWAUKEE IS BLACK GHETTO!!!!!
I could show you areas of Milwaukee that are so nice and upscale you would think your in LA.
99% of the time when I take people from Madison to Milwaukee's upper east side and lower east side they can't believe places like that even belong in the city of Milwaukee. Milwaukee suburbs are so upscale people just assume Milwaukee is a trash hole. If Milw or MKE had a decent advertising firm things might change.
Back to the op's question. There is many places even inside of Milwaukee that aren't ghetto. Most people in Wi haven't ever lived in a city center so they have no frame of ref. like Donnie in the big lebowski. The op sounds like they have never been to Milwaukee which is 2.1 million not 1.5 million people that includes all 7 counties!!!
Most of Milwaukee is safe and most people in WI aren't accustomed to big city living. I remember when I went to NYC and I saw homeless people outside trump towers and I thought " What a dirty hood I'm in" little did I now I was in the Financial District. Point being just b/c you see homeless people doesn't mean your in the hood but in BIG CITY like Milwaukee you will see this more often b/c in Madison it's more of a suburb. So when you see a 400,000 car next to a homeless guy that's what happens in a big city... WELCOME TO REAL CITY LIFE!!! not 200,000 people thinking they live in a big city.
This is true of so many point,I could see this thread being 27pages.!!!!
lets get one thing straight...NOT ALL OF MILWAUKEE IS BLACK GHETTO!!!!!
I could show you areas of Milwaukee that are so nice and upscale you would think your in LA.
99% of the time when I take people from Madison to Milwaukee's upper east side and lower east side they can't believe places like that even belong in the city of Milwaukee. Milwaukee suburbs are so upscale people just assume Milwaukee is a trash hole. If Milw or MKE had a decent advertising firm things might change.
Back to the op's question. There is many places even inside of Milwaukee that aren't ghetto. Most people in Wi haven't ever lived in a city center so they have no frame of ref. like Donnie in the big lebowski. The op sounds like they have never been to Milwaukee which is 2.1 million not 1.5 million people that includes all 7 counties!!!
Most of Milwaukee is safe and most people in WI aren't accustomed to big city living. I remember when I went to NYC and I saw homeless people outside trump towers and I thought " What a dirty hood I'm in" little did I now I was in the Financial District. Point being just b/c you see homeless people doesn't mean your in the hood but in BIG CITY like Milwaukee you will see this more often b/c in Madison it's more of a suburb. So when you see a 400,000 car next to a homeless guy that's what happens in a big city... WELCOME TO REAL CITY LIFE!!! not 200,000 people thinking they live in a big city.
You are correct, I have not been to MKE.
I have been to many big cities though and lived near or in several. I've been down in L.A. It sux. So much so that, even though as a kid I always wanted to be part of Hollywood (some 30+ years ago, LOL!)... I drove down twice, had a look and said... nah don't care, never want to set foot in L.A. again.
A place that's 40% black, though... is well 40% black. Like it or not, that fact generally has implications. Perhaps it isn't "all black ghetto", but the probability goes up.
Consider, for example, that Prince George's County, MD, "is the wealthiest county in the nation with an African-American majority." and yet, ""As of 2006, the county reportedly contains the highest crime rate for the Washington Metro area, comparable to Baltimore.[9][10]""
Now if MKE is like the situation of say Compton and it's relationship to Orange County... well there's enough distance that it doesn't really matter what happens in Compton, your expose is near nil. At least in S. OC...
On the other hand, if living in Waukesha, Brookfield, or Menomonee Falls *is* like Gardena, Long Beach, Inglewood, (adjacent to Compton), etc. well then it's pointless. You've got problems. Essentially you'll have a nice house bordering the hood. Sounds like an expensive trap to me.
Now, MKE has a population of about 600,000. That would be about 240,000 blacks. The surrounding "white flight" towns have a number I haven't calculated yet. But if it's significantly smaller then you're essentially overwhelmed from the get go.
To make an example, New Berlin is 39,000 and less than 1% black. So what? You have 240,000 right next to you. So unless it's literally segregated and/or you *never* have to set foot in MKE, you *must* consider the overflow, where you have to shop, travel, etc. If you have to work downtown, then you're hosed from the get go again.
So that's the essential point of this inquiry. How much does the "hood" fan out into less problematic areas.
If to any significant degree, then even moving into a "white flight" suburb is somewhat a pointless waste of life as you'd want to be making plans to exit at the first reasonable point anyway.
Now if MKE is like the situation of say Compton and it's relationship to Orange County... well there's enough distance that it doesn't really matter what happens in Compton, your expose is near nil. At least in S. OC...
On the other hand, if living in Waukesha, Brookfield, or Menomonee Falls *is* like Gardena, Long Beach, Inglewood, (adjacent to Compton), etc. well then it's pointless. You've got problems. Essentially you'll have a nice house bordering the hood. Sounds like an expensive trap to me.
Waukesha, Brookfield, and Meno Falls are considered outer-ring communities. They border other predominantly white neighborhoods. Meno Falls borders northwest Milwaukee, and that area of northwest Milwaukee has a mixed, middle class black/white population, so you may not like it as much.
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Now, MKE has a population of about 600,000. That would be about 240,000 blacks. The surrounding "white flight" towns have a number I haven't calculated yet. But if it's significantly smaller then you're essentially overwhelmed from the get go.
That means Milwaukee has 360,000 non-blacks, so you should be able to find places that suit you.
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To make an example, New Berlin is 39,000 and less than 1% black. So what? You have 240,000 right next to you. So unless it's literally segregated and/or you *never* have to set foot in MKE, you *must* consider the overflow, where you have to shop, travel, etc. If you have to work downtown, then you're hosed from the get go again.
New Berlin borders one of the whitest areas of Milwaukee. All you'll have to worry about is getting a good parking spot at Sam's Club during peak shopping hours.
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So that's the essential point of this inquiry. How much does the "hood" fan out into less problematic areas.
Ground-zero of the ghetto is in north-central Milwaukee, and there are similar, though less distressed neighborhoods, in west-central Milwaukee, parts of western Milwaukee, and parts of northwest Milwaukee. Blacks have been "fanning out," as you say, from the core ghetto, but mostly when they're tired of ghetto crime and are interested in middle-class living.
The only suburbs that really have seen demographic pressure from black expansion are Brown Deer and Wauwatosa--both fine places to live. Brown Deer has become the area's prime integrated, middle-class suburb. Wauwatosa has seen some decay at its very eastern borders, but mostly because of the fear of whites--not so much because of any violent onslaught of blacks. Both Brown Deer and Wauwatosa are inner-ring suburbs.
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If to any significant degree, then even moving into a "white flight" suburb is somewhat a pointless waste of life as you'd want to be making plans to exit at the first reasonable point anyway.
I don't think the dominoes are falling quite as quickly as you think.
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