Does being in the center of Mpls hurt the U of M? (Madison: high school, universities)

[northstar22]

I really don't see how Madison is better than the Twin Cities. I've been to both, and I vastly prefer MSP. Also, I don't see anything wrong with going to school near where you grew up.

If they want a small-town college feel, then can't they just go to Morris, St. Cloud, Mankato, Duluth, Rochester or Crookston? Why Wisconsin?

Also, I know this is a stupid question, but isn't reciprocity where out-of-state students pay in-state tuition? Why would MN do this, if we just lose many of our top students to WI? I can understand sparsely-populated states like North Dakota and Wyoming having reciprocity, but why MN? I've never heard of such a thing in Michigan (or any other state with a decent population).

[MN55]

If they want a small-town college feel, then can't they just go to Morris, St. Cloud, Mankato, Duluth, Rochester or Crookston? Why Wisconsin?

Because none of those schools are even in the same playing field as the U of M in terms of academics and athletics. Wisconsin is.

really don't see how Madison is better than the Twin Cities. I've been to both, and I vastly prefer MSP.

As a place to live, MSP is much better. As a place to go to college though, Madison is much better.

Also, I know this is a stupid question, but isn't reciprocity where out-of-state students pay in-state tuition? Why would MN do this, if we just lose many of our top students to WI? I can understand sparsely-populated states like North Dakota and Wyoming having reciprocity, but why MN? I've never heard of such a thing in Michigan (or any other state with a decent population).

I've always wondered this as well. Obviously I'm not complaining because I took advantage of it, but it seems like the MN-WI reciprocity agreement screws over MN. The ones with ND, SD, and Manitoba make sense as it is not likely at all for top students from the metro to head to those places. I've always thought Iowa would make better sense for MN reciprocity than Wisconsin. It gives more kids in MN a chance to go to another B10 school but the top kids from both states will largely come to the U of M while with WI the top students from both states go to UW.

[northstar22]

Originally Posted by MN55

Because none of those schools are even in the same playing field as the U of M in terms of academics and athletics. Wisconsin is.

True.

As a place to live, MSP is much better. As a place to go to college though, Madison is much better.

I know everyone's entitled to their opinion, so I respect yours. Still, I disagree. I think it would be exciting to go to college in Minneapolis - there's plenty of activities for young adults. More so than in Madison. In addition to Dinkytown, there's Uptown, Loring Park, Downtown and Cathedral Hill (St. Paul).

I actually have the opposite perspective. I'd rather go to college somewhere like Minneapolis and live in a college town. Maybe it's because I'm from Kalamazoo (I'm surprised you've heard of it, MN55).

I love the peaceful/deserted feeling of a college town in the summer when the students are gone, and then the excitement/craziness of them coming back in the fall. I also like the close knit feeling and sense of community that "townies" (locals who don't go to the school/locals who happen to be students) have.

Interestingly enough, I almost went to the U of M, but I didn't go because of the price and because it didn't have my major (aviation). While I love college towns and plan on moving to one here in Minnesota (buying a house in Northfield), I think I would have really appreciated going to the U.

I've always wondered this as well. Obviously I'm not complaining because I took advantage of it, but it seems like the MN-WI reciprocity agreement screws over MN. The ones with ND, SD, and Manitoba make sense as it is not likely at all for top students from the metro to head to those places. I've always thought Iowa would make better sense for MN reciprocity than Wisconsin. It gives more kids in MN a chance to go to another B10 school but the top kids from both states will largely come to the U of M while with WI the top students from both states go to UW.

It really hurts Minnesota. Still, we probably pick up some of Wisconsin's top students.

[uptown_urbanist]

Looking at which college students choose when applying and accepted to both Madison and the U doesn't mean that Madison is getting the majority of "top" students across the board; it simply means that among students who apply to both they're getting the majority. Certainly many of my high school classmates all applied to the U even if they preferred Madison. I was probably considered a "top" student, and chose not to apply to Madison, so I -- and all of those like me -- don't even count in that statistic. I don't have time to look up side-by-side comparisons (although those are also going to vary by specific college), but both Madison and the University of MN are top research universities with good reputations; neither is hurting as far as attracting top students. I'm sure many students do prefer Madison's college town atmosphere, but given the U's huge number of students (including a large number of highly qualified undergraduates), I simply don't think it's a valid concern.

[Radical_Car]

Originally Posted by MN55

As a place to live, MSP is much better. As a place to go to college though, Madison is much better.

Its subjective, not objective.

Small =/= Better
Some people like smaller, and some people, like me, like bigger.
Larger cities intrigue me, just like small towns intrigue people. Though SOME small towns do indeed intrigue me, such as Brainerd. I have always been fascinated with Brainerd.
For me I would choose MSP over Madison, though Madison is a fantastic town and I loved it when I was there for 2 days, I even liked it more then Eau Claire, but I was only in each city for 2 days. I loved driving through it, it was a Friday If I remember correctly and since I was coming from Chicago, it was so nice to just drive around with very little traffic for a while, exploring the city while looking for a hotel.

Eau Claire wasn't as fun to drive around while looking for a hotel, just my opinion. Eau Claire is also smaller, which again, some people perfer and some people don't prefer.


And, exactly how many students to stay close to home while going to college? Is there a percentage or anything?
In St. Cloud there are plenty of people here that grew up in St Cloud and went to SCSU and stayed in St Cloud after they were done with college. It also seems like tons of my peers in high school are planning on going to SCSU, and I also had several teachers in school that grew up in St Cloud and went to SCSU to become a teacher and stayed in St Cloud and became a teacher here. I have met people that did leave the city for college though, so Im not saying 100% or anything close to 100% of the people stay here.

[tpk-nyc]

I don't know if it hurts the school, but it certainly helps the city.

If you're in a college town, you leave the day after graduation. If you're moving anyway, why not move to another state? A lot of Madison grads move to Minneapolis or Chicago, and bypass Milwaukee. See this article (Does Milwaukee have enough college graduates to thrive? - JSOnline) about Milwaukee's problem attracting college graduates.

Twin Cities graduates don't have to move (because it's a viable place to start a career) and they are already integrated into the life of the Cities. Many have an apartment, a boy/girlfriend, a internship, maybe even a job.

Other examples of this are Seattle (UW's campus is in a very similar location to MPLS) and San Francisco (although Berkeley is not in the city, it's very close and on the commuter rail). These are thriving cities known for a well educated workforce.

Madison, Ann Arbor and Bloomington are great college towns with exceptional schools, but do these grads move to Milwaukee, Detroit and Indianapolis?

[Kid Cann]

Originally Posted by Radical_Car

Its subjective, not objective.

Small =/= Better
Some people like smaller, and some people, like me, like bigger.
Larger cities intrigue me, just like small towns intrigue people. Though SOME small towns do indeed intrigue me, such as Brainerd. I have always been fascinated with Brainerd.
For me I would choose MSP over Madison, though Madison is a fantastic town and I loved it when I was there for 2 days, I even liked it more then Eau Claire, but I was only in each city for 2 days. I loved driving through it, it was a Friday If I remember correctly and since I was coming from Chicago, it was so nice to just drive around with very little traffic for a while, exploring the city while looking for a hotel.

Eau Claire wasn't as fun to drive around while looking for a hotel, just my opinion. Eau Claire is also smaller, which again, some people perfer and some people don't prefer.


And, exactly how many students to stay close to home while going to college? Is there a percentage or anything?
In St. Cloud there are plenty of people here that grew up in St Cloud and went to SCSU and stayed in St Cloud after they were done with college. It also seems like tons of my peers in high school are planning on going to SCSU, and I also had several teachers in school that grew up in St Cloud and went to SCSU to become a teacher and stayed in St Cloud and became a teacher here. I have met people that did leave the city for college though, so Im not saying 100% or anything close to 100% of the people stay here.

I'm sure there are statistics. On SCSU's website you can find the % breakdown of where students came from based on County. I think it would read something like 25% Stearns County, 15% Sherburn County, 10% Benton, 10% Wright County, 10% Hennepin, etc. (not the real numbers but that's how it's done... I'll try to find them later for you...)

Now-a-days, in the world of ever increasing tuition costs, and the dying economy, more students are A) Choosing Community Colleges and Technical Schools for Generals B) More students are opting to live @ home while going to college (Home=mom and dad's house).

While going to SCSU, most of the people I met were from all over MN, A LOT from ND and WI, some from SD and IA... And oddly enough there were a lot from Montana...

Among the people I met from MN that were at SCSU, many from the Central MN area- Little Falls, Albany, Holdingford, Annandale, Foley, Milaca, Brainerd, etc... But Many, many, many were from 'The Cities'. It was crazy to drive down I94 toward 'the cities' on a Friday, the amount of cars with "ST CLOUD STATE UNIVERSITY" stickers heading down was remarkable.

[ozzie679]

The UM's location is a detriment. But as tpk-nyc said, their location helps the city.

[MN55]

The UM's location is a detriment. But as tpk-nyc said, their location helps the city.

That's what I think.

Madison, Ann Arbor and Bloomington are great college towns with exceptional schools, but do these grads move to Milwaukee, Detroit and Indianapolis?

No they all move to Chicago

I'm from Kalamazoo (I'm surprised you've heard of it, MN55).

I heard about it reading about Derek Jeter cause he grew up there, too.

[MINresident]

One of the problems with the U of M is its tuition. In state tuition is just ridiculous for a state school. It's $11,542 for Minnesota and Wisconsin residents. Madison is $9,050 for Wisconsin residents and $10,820 for Minnesota residents. So, Madison is CHEAPER for a Minnesota resident to attend than Minnesota. Minnesota does have good out state tuition rates.

If Madison is cheaper (for Minnesota and Wisconsin residents), is regarded better academically (albeit barely), and is a better college environment, there's a reason why the best students are chosing Madison and not Minnesota.

Now, I just talked to my brother, who has a kid at a high school who had told him that almost every smart kid chose Minnesota over Wisconsin. So I do think there are still Minnesota residents chosing the U of M. That being said, I do think that Minnesota has to do something about the recp. agreement, because that is not the norm.