Memories of gritty '70's & '80's downtown Minneapolis (St. Paul: for rent, condos)

[Duluth07]

Up here in Duluth, our downtown recently experienced the fire of our last rough bar, which has pretty much cleared downtown of those who hung out and caused trouble at the Kozy Bar at 129 E 1st St.

I lived downtown in Minneapolis for a decade and worked at the Downtown Y - many of the longtime downtowners would tell me about the 1970's & 1980's downtown (the infamous Fairmont Hotel, which was right across from the Y at 9th and Hennepin, who knew it would be the Chambers today?!); the Tourist Hotel (later the Hotel Amsterdam and Saloon Hotel at 830 Hennepin above the Saloon Bar); Moby Dick's, Block E between 1970-1980; the Continental Hotel...I wasn't even born until 1980 but the stories of a much gritter downtown Minneapolis, something associated with the old Greyhound Bus Depot called the 'Minnesota Pipeline' that would send runaway girls from MN to New York to walk the streets...

Does anyone remember this downtown? Share your stories of what downtown used to be like before all the rich people came in and developed the condos and yuppie bars! I heard a lot of hard to believe stories about the downtown YMCA (and YWCA) before the current buildings were built and they still had the rooms for rent!

[audadvnc]

Ah, yes, old Block E. Mpls lost a bit of soul when it razed that shrine to decadence and put up some empty Disney clone mall. I remember being in Moby Dick's and seeing Jay Berine, the scumbag owner of the Longhorn Bar (where I spent many an addled evening) saunter by, with a young blonde man on a leash, in leather S&M garb. Another time (I wasn't there, nope), the police raided Moby Dick's for drugs, and didn't find anyone in possession - but dozens of bags of cocaine, pot, pills, needles, what have you, scattered over the floor. All the patrons were standing around, whistling and looking innocent, of course...

[Ben Around]

Originally Posted by Duluth07

Up here in Duluth, our downtown recently experienced the fire of our last rough bar, which has pretty much cleared downtown of those who hung out and caused trouble at the Kozy Bar at 129 E 1st St.

I lived downtown in Minneapolis for a decade and worked at the Downtown Y - many of the longtime downtowners would tell me about the 1970's & 1980's downtown (the infamous Fairmont Hotel, which was right across from the Y at 9th and Hennepin, who knew it would be the Chambers today?!); the Tourist Hotel (later the Hotel Amsterdam and Saloon Hotel at 830 Hennepin above the Saloon Bar); Moby Dick's, Block E between 1970-1980; the Continental Hotel...I wasn't even born until 1980 but the stories of a much gritter downtown Minneapolis, something associated with the old Greyhound Bus Depot called the 'Minnesota Pipeline' that would send runaway girls from MN to New York to walk the streets...

Does anyone remember this downtown? Share your stories of what downtown used to be like before all the rich people came in and developed the condos and yuppie bars! I heard a lot of hard to believe stories about the downtown YMCA (and YWCA) before the current buildings were built and they still had the rooms for rent!

If you want to see gritty downtown Mpls before urban renewal (1960s), find the public television show about the "Gateway" district around where Washington, Hennepin and Nicollet intersected, pre-Nicollet Mall. There's a link here on c-d somewhere or maybe you can Google it. It's film footage and narrative of the bars and flophouses. Riveting stuff.

[uptown_urbanist]

My grandmother has memories of the Gateway District; that was where many of the inexpensive second-hand stores were located, so they'd go down there to shop at times. (this was '30s and early '40s).

There have always been rich people downtown, though; I'm relatively young and was just a kid in the 1980s (and a toddler in the '70s), but there used to be a lot more department stores, destination restaurants that had been there for decades, and just a lot more going on.

Not gritty, and not all that long ago, but two long-time Hennepin Avenue places I was sad to see go were Teeners and Shinders.

[Duluth07]

I read a book about a decade ago called 'Down and Out, a History of Minneapolis' Gateway District'. I was in school then and have always been interested in how 'social networks' worked when people had to do it face to face! Some of the photos from the book are very interesting because while the area looked 'tough', those men had also just finished working for three months up in International Falls at the logging camps, up in Hibbing/Virginia at the mines or working on the railroads, maybe the shipyards in Duluth/Superior. There was a sense of pride in physical labor doing jobs that are rapidly disappearing. What I have seen particularly in downtown Duluth (and this is just as a passer by) these bars, bookstores, liquor stores along our worst stretch of 1st downtown between 3rd Ave E and 2nd Ave W is a feeling of 'why bother trying'...the expression in the eyes of the men in the 1910 photos from the Gateway Minneapolis District are men in old clothes and little money, but they were good at what they did...in the background of these photos appeared to be postings of new jobs with the pay (leave today for a 3 month job in Billings! Intl Falls logging jobs - train leaves at 2pm! guaranteed spots left!). There were opportunities for young men who were not cut out for 6 years at the U. I see it here at UMD, so many of these kids are here because their parents said it's either college, telemarketing or the Army. And by the end of fall semester, after failing all their classes, these kids are going to be back home with no idea of what to do next. It just concerns me what kind of society we will have in 20 years if nearly everything will require a masters or more, when so many kids are just not getting it by 8th grade; and also, in order for that successful masters, and the competiton, you're going to have to get your kids ready for that path starting around 7th grade to avoid all those remedial classes and a good SAT.

Anyway, that's a cool picture of downtown!

[MplsTodd]

I was born in the 1960s and used to visit downtown frequently in the 70s because my dad played handball at the downtown Y.

While I spent most of my time on Nicollet, I definitely remember Hennepin too. Block E had two Shinders--Both had magazines, but the one at the 7th Street corner had comic books while the one at 6th Street also had books.
There also were two Musicland Stores, within 1/2 block of each other. Then they combined sometime around 1980-81 into a store in the 700 block of Hennepin, next to where Chevy's used to be ( I remember that because I bought the LP Sound Affects by The Jam there). There was also Music City at 7th & Henn, where Seven now is. In the late 70s to mid-late 1980s, Block E also included a Hot Licks/Wax Museum record store.

Also on Block E was a grocery store whose name escapes me, but I never went inside as I thought it was a bit dirtier than the Red Owls and Country Clubs I grew up at. There also was a Best Steak House, where you could get a very inexpensive steak dinner with Texas Toast, salad and baked potato for about $4 or something.


Across from Block E (where Fogo De Chao and City Center are), there used to be a Bridgeman's, a T-shirt shack, the Gopher Theater, and an "adult" theater. There were lots of adult theaters along Hennepin in those years, plus bars that always seemed a bit suspect--like "Mousy's" around 12th Street or so (never made it to that place, though I did go to Moby Dick's twice. Actually it didn't seem as freaky of a place as I expected.

I also remember Duffs, a bar at 9th & Hennepin, where I saw Roger McGuinn play in the early-mid 1980s.

I agree that hennepin has lost much of its character--largely due to the impact of Block E and City Center. But then again, our society doesn't support businesses like music stores or bookstores like it used to, so what has filled that void is restaurants.

I have to disagree with Uptown about the comment on number of restaurants in downtown. I really think we have more restaurants now. Back in the '70s there were places like Charlies Cafe, Harry's, plus (where my parents used to take me) Harvest House Cafeteria at Woolworths at the IDS Center (where Banana Republic now is). But today, we have restaurants all around downtown--from Bar La Grassa in North Loop, to Joe's garage on Loring park, to Spill The Wine/SpoonRiver in the Mills District and lots of places on Nicollet mall/1stAvenue and Hennepin.

[uptown_urbanist]

I didn't mean more restaurants (I didn't word that well) -- just more places that had been around for decades. Many of those places have closed, and today's newer options don't have a long history yet. That will come with time, of course, but some of those other places had been there for many decades. I agree that the overall food scene is better (and more robust) now than anytime in my lifetime, anyway.

[laxster]

Originally Posted by audadvnc

Ah, yes, old Block E. Mpls lost a bit of soul when it razed that shrine to decadence and put up some empty Disney clone mall.

Disney has a propensity for creating vibrant and imaginative new developments, themes, and a superb attention to detail. I wouldn't call City Center any of these. It's an ugly brown fortress with no exterior adornment. Disney doesn't even put unseen backlot buildings up that look as ugly as the ribbed (for her pleasure!) exterior of City Center.

To illustrate, here's a Disney mall:



And here's City Center:

[Explorer John]

Very interesting topic.

Originally Posted by Ben Around

If you want to see gritty downtown Mpls before urban renewal (1960s), find the public television show about the "Gateway" district around where Washington, Hennepin and Nicollet intersected, pre-Nicollet Mall. There's a link here on c-d somewhere or maybe you can Google it. It's film footage and narrative of the bars and flophouses. Riveting stuff.

Dug up the link. The program is called "Down on Skid Row."

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[Cruz Azul Guy]

That's a great documentary. I'm really fascinated by places like the old Skid Row in Minneapolis and the old Rondo neighborhood in St. Paul. To get a different spin the Prince movie Purple Rain also shows some good footage of Minneapolis and First Ave back in the early 80's.