MN Vikings Terrible Monday Night 40-14 Performance. (section 8, for rent)

[knke0204]

Joe Webb looked awful. He's definitely not a QB, especially a franchise QB.

His mechanic are gross. Remember when Troy Smith came out of Ohio St. and everyone went nuts? It took the dude 5 years to develop into a QB.

Cool, so Joe Webb is athletic and can run? That means nothing. A QB has to be a vocal leader. He has to be able to pick up defensive formations and call audibles. He needs to be able to do check downs, and be able to have a consistent caedence. He needs to be able to read blitz packages, and no when to call a hot route. A QB needs to be smart, articulate, perfect, strong, and a leader. I see none of this in Joe Webb. Just another athletic homeboy from AL that can jump and run.

Let's go after Andrew Luck baby. The QB of the future for the Vikes

[northstar22]

Originally Posted by knke0204

Joe Webb looked awful. He's definitely not a QB, especially a franchise QB.

His mechanic are gross. Remember when Troy Smith came out of Ohio St. and everyone went nuts? It took the dude 5 years to develop into a QB.
Cool, so Joe Webb is athletic and can run? That means nothing. A QB has to be a vocal leader. He has to be able to pick up defensive formations and call audibles. He needs to be able to do check downs, and be able to have a consistent caedence. He needs to be able to read blitz packages, and no when to call a hot route. A QB needs to be smart, articulate, perfect, strong, and a leader. I see none of this in Joe Webb. Just another athletic homeboy from AL that can jump and run.

Joe Webb is a rookie. It's too early to see whether or not he will develop into an NFL starting QB. No QB is a leader in his first year in the league. Peyton Manning wasn't, Tom Brady wasn't, Brett Favre certainly wasn't. It will take Joe some time, but I think he'll be good.

Also, what do you mean by "homeboy from AL" that can "jump and run?" I see some racial undertones in that.

Let's go after Andrew Luck baby. The QB of the future for the Vikes

Only if the Panthers, Cardinals and Bills pass on him -- not gonna happen.

[rcsteiner]

Originally Posted by kazoopilot

Joe Webb is a rookie. It's too early to see whether or not he will develop into an NFL starting QB. No QB is a leader in his first year in the league. Peyton Manning wasn't, Tom Brady wasn't, Brett Favre certainly wasn't. It will take Joe some time, but I think he'll be good.

Sometimes you get an exception (Matt Ryan, Joe Flacco), but they are very rare.

[knke0204]

Originally Posted by kazoopilot

Joe Webb is a rookie. It's too early to see whether or not he will develop into an NFL starting QB. No QB is a leader in his first year in the league. Peyton Manning wasn't, Tom Brady wasn't, Brett Favre certainly wasn't. It will take Joe some time, but I think he'll be good.

No, it's not too early. He set NCAA rushing and passing records and sill didn't get invites to the Combine! Even dudes who have no chance of getting drafted get invited to the combine. Are you seeing something that thousands of professional Football scouts didn't see? You're putting Joe Webb in the same category as Peyton when Peyton came out? Peyton wasn't surround with all stars like Webb is, and Peyton was very highly regarded as a NFL type QB. Same can be said for Tom Brady. You know that Webb was drafted as a Wide Receiver right?

Also, what do you mean by "homeboy from AL" that can "jump and run?" I see some racial undertones in that.

It is what it is, however you take it.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wT5lUn8_t68
Woah, he sounds so articulate.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hlOEzJ4sTRQ
Cool, you ran a long play against the 5th string 49ers at the end of a meaningless Pre-season game.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9PsUH1fmJk
Cool, jumping over bags. When will you ever do that while tucked in the pocket reading routes?

Only if the Panthers, Cardinals and Bills pass on him -- not gonna happen.
If and only if, but Panthers and Bills certainly won't. Cardinals need skill positions much more than a young QB. They have a franchise WR, they're not going to get a QB and put their franchise WR on the shelf.

Look, opinions are opinions. But Like i've been telling everybody. The future will speak for itself. He doesn't look at all like a QB. At least when Peyton struggled, he still had the proper mechanics and understood defensive packages.

[knke0204]

Originally Posted by MN-Born-n-Raised

While I prefer the Viking to stay, I'm not in favor of climbing deeper in debt to watch pro-football.

While I get the argument that the Vikes bring in out-of-state $$'s (and they do), that is pretty much the only economic benefit over alternatives. People will spend those Viking ticket dollars on other things. Like movies, bowling, shopping, eating out etc. The problem is it's tough to measure where those dollars go. Putting it another way, if the Vikings didn't play on Sunday in MN, do you think all those people would leave those entertainment $$'s in the bank and simple sit at home doing nothing?? Maybe they would head-out to a local pub to watch the games or head to the malls to shop or...???? Those dollars will be spent somewhere at sometime.

The Sunday Vikings game is easy to measure the flow of money. It's much harder measure the gains for other businesses if the Vikings leave town. Rest assured that shopping malls have less people in them when the Vikes are doing well.

I suggest all of you C_D posters to go out read these books and then come here and debate.

Team sports marketing - Google Books

Amazon.com: Sports, Jobs, and Taxes: The Economic Impact of Sports Teams and Stadiums (9780815761112): Roger G. Noll: Books

Handbook on the economics of sport - Google Books

You are assuming that Sporting Events are Normal Goods, where an increase in income will result in going to more events. Now, it's a very safe assumption, and on paper it makes sense. But it's not right. It's not like if i get an increase in income that I'll go to more than the 1 Viking game a year. Simply because you cannot go to a Vikings game every day and there is no subsitution for a sporting event. They ar unique and considered inferior goods - If the price of a ticket to go to a Vikings game increases, chances are people are going to go watch it at a bar or at home, not go to another NFL live football game in a stadium, or even go to a Gopher's game instead. It's goofy, and really interesting.

[northstar22]

Knke, Tom Brady was also pick 199. I think Webb will be special.

[knke0204]

Originally Posted by kazoopilot

Knke, Tom Brady was also pick 199. I think Webb will be special.

I wish him every bit of success as well, and I really hope he can do great. However, I'm just not sold on him.. Yet... There's no doubt he's a tremendous talent, and his arm is incredible.

[MN-Born-n-Raised]

Originally Posted by knke0204

I suggest all of you C_D posters to go out read these books and then come here and debate.

Team sports marketing - Google Books

Amazon.com: Sports, Jobs, and Taxes: The Economic Impact of Sports Teams and Stadiums (9780815761112): Roger G. Noll: Books

Handbook on the economics of sport - Google Books

You are assuming that Sporting Events are Normal Goods, where an increase in income will result in going to more events. Now, it's a very safe assumption, and on paper it makes sense. But it's not right. It's not like if i get an increase in income that I'll go to more than the 1 Viking game a year. Simply because you cannot go to a Vikings game every day and there is no subsitution for a sporting event. They ar unique and considered inferior goods - If the price of a ticket to go to a Vikings game increases, chances are people are going to go watch it at a bar or at home, not go to another NFL live football game in a stadium, or even go to a Gopher's game instead. It's goofy, and really interesting.

Yea. A stadium full of these guys won't spend every nickel they have on something. Just ask people from Nebraska, Iowa and other states if their economy is in shambles because they didn't spend $600M on a stadium to attract a team. As I said, those dollars will be spent on something even if it isn't on game day. It's just harder to measure.

The math doesn't work. That's why they need governments help to build a stadium that sits empty hundreds of days a year. It should be common sense. I know I know. "But they fill that with other events"! Well. Every stadium is sold to the public that way. If a new stadium is built, then one of the other ones won't get the truck pull (that was sold to the public as a reason to buit it.)

If it is such a great business idea, then how come Ziggy doesn't pay for the whole thing?? Answer: because the numbers don't work!

[knke0204]

Originally Posted by MN-Born-n-Raised

Yea. A stadium full of these guys won't spend every nickel they have on something. Just ask people from Nebraska, Iowa and other states if their economy is in shambles because they didn't spend $600M on a stadium to attract a team. As I said, those dollars will be spent on something even if it isn't on game day. It's just harder to measure.

The math doesn't work. That's why they need governments help to build a stadium that sits empty hundreds of days a year. It should be common sense. I know I know. "But they fill that with other events"! Well. Every stadium is sold to the public that way. If a new stadium is built, then one of the other ones won't get the truck pull (that was sold to the public as a reason to buit it.)

If it is such a great business idea, then how come Ziggy doesn't pay for the whole thing?? Answer: because the numbers don't work!

Well exactly. Zygi* is a business man. He's made his billions by smart investing and with a business mindset. If it was such a great investment, he would have done it.

Now, I have argued forever on this site that Public Funds do not bother me, but the fact of the matter is public funding for stadiums is very inefficient.

Actually, anything that is subsidized by the goverment is inefficient and is a bad investment!

But, using a little bit of tax dollars can be efficient. With Municipal Bonds and the life term of payback, a small taxpayer investment can be good for the community. You can't tell me the property taxes of a 40 acre site like that aren't through the roof! You can't tell me the taxes from concessions/merchandise/food/parking/ whatever doesn't generate enough tax dollars to turn a bit of a profit. If not, than the goverment and it's constituents need to take a long hard look at the way they spend money.

Government elected officials should balance the budget like we balance our check books. That's why we cut coupans, look for 'deals', and make smart purchasing decisions.

The government spends with an open and flowing checkbook. Pshh a million dollars for new trash recepticals! sure! (WTF??!?!)

[northstar22]

As I said earlier, if we're going to spend $750 million of taxpayer money, I'd rather see that go towards improving our schools, upgrading our infrastructure or getting a real social safety net (state-run universal healthcare?) for all Minnesotans. Those things are far more important than a freakin' football stadium.

Let the Vikings move to Los Angeles or San Antonio. If we don't want to lose the sports presence, why not try to attract a UFL or CFL team to the Metrodome?