"Diverse" Suburbs (Minneapolis, Bloomington: live in, restaurants, price)

[Cruz Azul Guy]

Originally Posted by golfgal

Actually I was criticizing audadvnc and his North Minneapolis neighborhood considering he is the one that keeps throwing out comments about the suburbs.

Which North Minneapolis neighborhood is 90% black? The most recent demographic data I can find is from the 2000 census but given that data the most black neighborhood I can find is Willard-Hay and it's only 63.5%.

source: Willard Hay Population - Minneapolis Neighborhood Profile

[FamousBlueRaincoat]

Originally Posted by 1stpontiac

I dunno, potlucks get a lot more interesting when you have at least 4 continents represented at your table. That alone might be enough to swing me against non-diverse suburbs.


(I'm mixing race, ethnicity, and geography here, which isn't totally fair...just playing, though)

Yeah, diversity is more interesting. I'm generally just interested in nice places to live, and I think it's easier to find those things in the city. Diversity usually (almost always) does come along with that. The neighborhood that I live in right now is fairly white - my guess is that it's *much, much* less diverse than Powderhorn, where I lived in Minneapolis. In fact, my guess would be that it's as white as plenty of suburbs are. Of course, even living in a primarily white neighborhood, I'm actually within walking distance of vibrant neighborhoods filled with people of different cultures and races. I suppose one clear advantage is that diversity in the city forces people to interact with those who are different than them - I could probably just stare out my window and see the whole world pass by. Let alone going for walks, going to the store, sitting on the train, and what have you. In the suburbs its pretty easy to completely ignore your neighbors. I don't think anybody on the block I grew up on, and where my parents still live, really ever interacts with each other. I've never seen it anyway. Its doubtful that they specifically chose my family to ignore - we're fairly normal people.

But I'm not surprised that suburbs are getting more diverse. I think that over time the first and second ring suburbs, unless they are legitimately nice and special place to live, are probably going to become the least desirable places to live. Some of the ugliness might replay itself of the white flight with the cities, with people who feel threatened moving even further away. A lot of people are going to move back to cities, because they will be the most desirable places to live. And a lot of people are just going to stay where they are, and either be bitter about the changes or not care too much about the changes - also like the cities. That's my partially educated partially uneducated guess anyway.

What would be more interesting to me would to know whether increased diversity in specific suburbs was linked to increased upward mobility of said minority or not. Cities are generally safer than they have been in decades, with more people with money moving into them as well. It would just be an odd time in history for people to "flee" the city, especially the people who have probably seen the worst of times come and go - at least as far as our historical era is concerned. Most of the people who wanted to flee and had the means to do so did it a long time ago. That being said, there are all kinds of different situations facing all sorts of communities all across the country, in addition to individual families facing different situations of their own. Such as my family, who were Germans who came to NYC in the 30's, and left the city in the 90's, when a lot of the other Germans in the neighborhood did, but still after the worst of the "white flight" was over. Just 10 years later or so, I moved back to a city - and they probably are at some point too.

Perhaps this has turned into a ramble, so I'll stop.

[audadvnc]

When I lived in the Maryland suburbs of Washington DC, my town was very diverse. People from all over the cultural and socioeconomic map were in fairly close proximity. And people got along just fine. Eventually, suburban Minnesota will catch up and get with the modern world.

[FamousBlueRaincoat]

Originally Posted by audadvnc

When I lived in the Maryland suburbs of Washington DC, my town was very diverse. People from all over the cultural and socioeconomic map were in fairly close proximity. And people got along just fine. Eventually, suburban Minnesota will catch up and get with the modern world.

I don't know if this was directed at my statement or not. Minneapolis and Saint Paul don't have very high costs of living to begin with, so it may very well be quite a smooth transition to pretty normal diversity all around the area. If someone has a job, they can pretty much live wherever they want to. I think in bigger, rapidly gentrifying cities, where the main causes of diversity in the suburbs are poor people being priced out of the cities, things may not be so pretty. Here in Philadelphia, it seems like most of the racial tension is in fact in the suburbs and in formerly primarily white neighborhoods towards the outskirts of the city, which is also coinciding with a lot of inner city neighborhoods becoming fashionable and rather expensive. Neighborhoods that were written off a long time ago. That forced relocation and breakdown of communities was itself a rather large part of the problems in cities in the past, probably more so than poverty. But....I'm not a fortune teller. It just seems like a possible outcome to me.

[City Data Guy]

Statistics time, people. Hopefully this helps someone out.

Data from the 2007-2009 American Community Survey

Brooklyn Park

Population: 71,697

White: 58.1% (Non-Hispanic Whites: 54.9%)

Black or African American: 21.6%

American Indian and Alaska Native: 0.5%

Asian: 14.6%

Hispanic or Latino (of any race): 5.5%

Source

Brooklyn Center

Population: 27,363

White: 51.0% (Non-Hispanic Whites: 45.9%)

Black or African American: 25.7%

American Indian and Alaska Native: 1.0%

Asian: 13.0%

Hispanic or Latino (of any race): 9.8%

Source

Bloomington

Population: 82,168

White: 81.9% (Non-Hispanic Whites: 79.2%)

Black or African American: 6.4%

American Indian and Alaska Native: 0.7%

Asian: 4.9%

Hispanic or Latino (of any race): 7.0%

Source

Burnsville

Population: 59,041

White: 79.3% (Non-Hispanic Whites: 76.1%)

Black or African American: 9.4%

American Indian and Alaska Native: 0.7%

Asian: 6.4%

Hispanic or Latino (of any race): 5.8%

Source

Richfield

Population: 33,044

White: 72.0% (Non-Hispanic Whites: 66.7%)

Black or African American: 9.1%

American Indian and Alaska Native: 0.3%

Asian: 5.8%

Hispanic or Latino (of any race): 14.5%

Source

Shakopee

Population: 33,770

White: 80.8% (Non-Hispanic Whites: 75.8%)

Black or African American: 3.6%

American Indian and Alaska Native: 0.8%

Asian: 10.8%

Hispanic or Latino (of any race): 6.8%

Source

[audadvnc]

Originally Posted by Slig

Which North Minneapolis neighborhood is 90% black? The most recent demographic data I can find is from the 2000 census but given that data the most black neighborhood I can find is Willard-Hay and it's only 63.5%.

source: Willard Hay Population - Minneapolis Neighborhood Profile

Somebody should report golfgal to the moderator for writing inflammatory trolls.

Oh wait, she's the moderator. Nevermind...

Cheers, golfgal !

[FamousBlueRaincoat]

The idea of anywhere in Minneapolis being 90% black is pretty funny. It's a very white city. Even in the roughest neighborhoods, there are white people everywhere. I've probably seen the entire city by foot, and never felt like I didn't "fit in" or whatever in any area. It's a pretty positive thing in the long run, that Minneapolis doesn't as far to go as other cities do when it comes to re-integration.

[rcsteiner]

Originally Posted by FamousBlueRaincoat

The idea of anywhere in Minneapolis being 90% black is pretty funny. It's a very white city. Even in the roughest neighborhoods, there are white people everywhere. I've probably seen the entire city by foot, and never felt like I didn't "fit in" or whatever in any area. It's a pretty positive thing in the long run, that Minneapolis doesn't as far to go as other cities do when it comes to re-integration.

You won't even find 90% black towns in the Atlanta metro, FWIW.

[Globe199]

Originally Posted by golfgal

I find it humorous that 90% black is considered more diverse then 90% white .

I think people are going to be surprised at how diverse the suburbs have become. From attending various sporting events and other events around the metro you see the diversity. Sitting in your home in Minneapolis assuming the suburbs are "lily white" is a different story.

Agreed. Using census.gov, I was able to find that Eden Prairie is less white (82.4%) than Roseville (83.6%). Fascinating stats available on that site.

[uptown_urbanist]

^ It heavily varies by specific suburb, though. Some are relatively diverse; some definitely still fall within the "lily white" category. Just as all city neighborhoods are not the same, neither are all suburbs. (and as is evident in the recent Eden Prairie school desegregation controversy, the demographics within the specific suburbs also can vary dramatically by neighborhood.)