Census Results! (Minneapolis, St. Paul, Brooklyn Park: leases, big house, property taxes)

[uptown_urbanist]

Originally Posted by knke0204

-- Duluth has become an excellent second option for young families who could not otherwise afford living in the Twin Cities. Home prices are very very cheap - in the neighborhood I lived in, many of the homes were under $75,000. I lived in an $85,000 home that was 2 blocks from the Lake Boardwalk, 5 blocks to the edge of DT and a 15 minute walk to the Lift Bridge/Canal Park. Of course it was in an older, more deterriorated neighborhood, but it was safe and affordable. To the bolded part: Nothing in Duluth is too far away. Hermantown is nice - new, affordable, good schools, large property. The drive to the lake from Hermantown is less than 5 minutes and much of Hermantown sits on the edge of wildlife so bears and deer aren't uncommon 'up there on the hill'.

-- Duluth is a gritty city. It's where the Rust Belt began. I liked that appeal, but to many young people who move there from the 'Cities' are expecting nice, new, plasticy, shiny, fake suburbia and it's not. I liked the grit. I like the older neighborhoods, which is another story. I liked the old high rises that were downtown. I liked the old buildings.. I liked the maritime feel by the canal. There is so much to do in the city, where I lived I could walk DT in 10 minutes, walk to Canal Park in 15 minutes, walk through a park that had a creek flowing through it with waterfalls, and was on the edge of east Duluth with all the old beautiful mansions like this everywhere:

Maybe some of the answer is to forget the idea that young, educated people prefer to live in a large suburban home. Obviously some do, and some will continue to prefer that, but the trend away from that has really picked up steam in the past decade. Maybe part of the trick is to keep young people looking for interesting city living from going to Minneapolis, or if they're from "the Cities", from moving to Chicago, New York, LA, etc. For the younger entrepreneurial sorts, or those who can work from anywhere, someplace like Duluth would be affordable and could give them the chance to really take some risks that you couldn't as easily do if you're stuck paying a large rent elsewhere.

In any case, I don't think the industrial nature or grittiness should be seen as a negative. It's part of what makes Duluth SO much more appealing to some of us than, say, Rochester. Now they've just got to convince more people that Duluth is a better option than another, bigger city. If Duluth is successful really embracing what makes it unique (and encouraging the arts, etc. -- got to take a look at those posted reports later when I have a chance) then maybe they will have a better shot at attracting both more employers as well as more residents who want to live downtown or nearby, and who will help to fully revitalize it into a small but appealing (and urban) destination city.

[golfgal]

Originally Posted by uptown_urbanist

Maybe some of the answer is to forget the idea that young, educated people prefer to live in a large suburban home. Obviously some do, and some will continue to prefer that, but the trend away from that has really picked up steam in the past decade. Maybe part of the trick is to keep young people looking for interesting city living from going to Minneapolis, or if they're from "the Cities", from moving to Chicago, New York, LA, etc. For the younger entrepreneurial sorts, or those who can work from anywhere, someplace like Duluth would be affordable and could give them the chance to really take some risks that you couldn't as easily do if you're stuck paying a large rent elsewhere.

In any case, I don't think the industrial nature or grittiness should be seen as a negative. It's part of what makes Duluth SO much more appealing to some of us than, say, Rochester. Now they've just got to convince more people that Duluth is a better option than another, bigger city. If Duluth is successful really embracing what makes it unique (and encouraging the arts, etc. -- got to take a look at those posted reports later when I have a chance) then maybe they will have a better shot at attracting both more employers as well as more residents who want to live downtown or nearby, and who will help to fully revitalize it into a small but appealing (and urban) destination city.

Or maybe the trick is to have all employment opportunities in downtown Minneapolis otherwise commutes from urban areas get to be too long for most people.

[uptown_urbanist]

Originally Posted by golfgal

Or maybe the trick is to have all employment opportunities in downtown Minneapolis otherwise commutes from urban areas get to be too long for most people.

I was talking about Duluth. What are you talking about? I know you prefer suburban subdivisions and sprawl, but you're not a member of the demographic group I was discussing (highly-educated adults between 25-34). There's evidence out there to show that the trend is for these people to prefer living within three miles from an urban core, which suggests that if a city wants to compete to attract this crowd, they need to have appealing living options within short distance from their downtowns.

But in the case of the Twin Cities, then yes, I do think it's ideal to have a large core downtown area, rather than having office buildings sprawled in office parks scattered about. But then again, I am part of that well-educated young adult demographic category.

I also think that Duluth is a fascinating place, and could be very attractive for someone looking for a cheap place to live that has some real potential for the future, not to mention plenty of appeal in the short-term. A compact downtown, easy access to the waterfront, affordable housing, history. It might not have the jobs, but if they could get more of the people who could create jobs, then it would be a win-win for everyone. (on that note, are there many Twin Cities retirees heading there? I would consider that if I was retiring. Winters are cold, but they have their skyway system, and the rest of the year is great.)

[knke0204]

Originally Posted by uptown_urbanist

Maybe some of the answer is to forget the idea that young, educated people prefer to live in a large suburban home. Obviously some do, and some will continue to prefer that, but the trend away from that has really picked up steam in the past decade. Maybe part of the trick is to keep young people looking for interesting city living from going to Minneapolis, or if they're from "the Cities", from moving to Chicago, New York, LA, etc. For the younger entrepreneurial sorts, or those who can work from anywhere, someplace like Duluth would be affordable and could give them the chance to really take some risks that you couldn't as easily do if you're stuck paying a large rent elsewhere.

In any case, I don't think the industrial nature or grittiness should be seen as a negative. It's part of what makes Duluth SO much more appealing to some of us than, say, Rochester. Now they've just got to convince more people that Duluth is a better option than another, bigger city. If Duluth is successful really embracing what makes it unique (and encouraging the arts, etc. -- got to take a look at those posted reports later when I have a chance) then maybe they will have a better shot at attracting both more employers as well as more residents who want to live downtown or nearby, and who will help to fully revitalize it into a small but appealing (and urban) destination city.

Here's a pretty interesting article to your point. Trends in reverse: It's back to the Cities | StarTribune.com

I know Jim Oberstar wasn't very liked up there. He always vowed to bring jobs up to the region but never really did. He was also pretty hated because he lived in DC full time and rarely made it to the arrowhead.

A lot of residents up there had an animosity toward the "Cities". Especially regarding politics. Residents up there often felt short-changed or neglected by the politicians in the Twin Cities.

The city needs a huge employer. Similar to what the Mayo and IBM do for Rochester, Duluth needs this bad. There just aren't sustaining jobs to raise a family. At the same time, if you're content raising a family in an older-inner city neighborhood, it's not bad.

[Camden Northsider]

Great Pioneer Press article about suburban growth/sprawl in the Cities coming to a near halt, and projections that it will stay that way (and/or a reverse trend will happen in the future).

My favorite quote from the article: "Marohn, however, says suburbs are like drug addicts, unable to quit a destructive habit."

Suburban growth in Twin Cities loses steam. It could be gone for good. - TwinCities.com

[green_mariner]

Originally Posted by Camden Northsider

Great Pioneer Press article about suburban growth/sprawl in the Cities coming to a near halt, and projections that it will stay that way (and/or a reverse trend will happen in the future).

My favorite quote from the article: "Marohn, however, says suburbs are like drug addicts, unable to quit a destructive habit."

Suburban growth in Twin Cities loses steam. It could be gone for good. - TwinCities.com

Fewer people want to live far away now. It shows. More people, at least in the Twin Cities area, want to live closer to the cities.

I think this could be mainly a Minnesota thing. Around the Atlanta area, population growth is the most rapid in the outermost places.

I would say the future looks alright. More people moving closer to the city.

[audadvnc]

Suburban growth is similar to the "fairy rings" of fungus that grow in concentric circles away from rotting elm stumps. Eventually the stump returns to the earth, and new life begins there - and the mold goes away.

[west336]

^SO many things in life are like this! I liken the growth and re-growth of cities to the birth of stars. They get bigger and bigger until they implode on themselvs and move towards the center, get hotter again, and expand again.....and the cycle continues until the star blows up billions of years later. Minus the last part, I see cities this way almost exactly!

[knke0204]

Originally Posted by west336

^SO many things in life are like this! I liken the growth and re-growth of cities to the birth of stars. They get bigger and bigger until they implode on themselvs and move towards the center, get hotter again, and expand again.....and the cycle continues until the star blows up billions of years later. Minus the last part, I see cities this way almost exactly!

That's pretty crazy. Kind of like rings around a tree too I guess.

[Minnesota Spring]

I think as gas prices continue to rise in the coming years, people will give more serious consideration to how far they live from work and more will prefer pedestrian and bicycle friendly neighborhoods (and obesity rates will decline). As demand for mass transit continues to grow, transit authorities will shift funding priorities from highways towards rail etc. Cities will contiue to attract more people that otherwise would establish themselves in the suburbs if gas was cheaper.