Goodbye Minnesota Vikings (Moorhead, Trail: sale, buying, theatre)

[yoyoma02]

Originally Posted by Unity77

So, by your logic I'm being ripped off too. I don't have children nor do I plan on having any, but I still have to support our public school system so others' brats can attend them.

You have a solid point. But, are you really saying pro-sports is just as important as education?

[yoyoma02]

Originally Posted by Unity77

People have already made their decision by electing the officials who are currently working on a stadium plan.

Even if we were to have a special, metro or statewide vote, I'm certain, the pro-sports or pro-stadium crowd would win. I never hear people complaining about new stadiums, but I always read their rants on the Star Tribune, Pioneer Press, etc... Always the same group that doesn't want their money going towards anythings. They're a bunch of miserable SOBs.

Uh... what? Elected officals don't represent the overall public opinion. Economic bailout, anyone?

You guys will probably get a new stadium, but not because the public wants it. Most people I know in the Twin Cities don't want their tax dollars going to that.

Whats wrong with finding an investor to build the stadium instead of using tax dollars?

[Ghengis]

Originally Posted by Laggard

Yep. Since we had no say in it and since the money could be used to do something better than build a stadium.

Why anyone would want to fund such a pathetic second rate organization like the vikings is beyond me. But go for it. Have a bake sale, collect aluminum cans, send your tax refund to Ziggy. No skin off my back. I'm a life long Packer fan anyway.

Like i said. Put it to a vote. Let the people decide if they want it or not.

now I know why Cheeseheads eat their young

[knke0204]

Originally Posted by yoyoma02

Yes, I had a MN income, but never went to a game. I paid for something and got nothing. Rippppeeeeddd offf.

Well, I wouldn't say you didn't get anything. And, btw, it's a Hennepin County Sales Tax, not anything to do with your State Income Tax. So this only applies if you shop in Minneapolis or Hennepin County (Which if I remember right you were in Mpls?).

You didn't get protected and served by Police?
You didn't have running water or sewer?
You didn't have a sidewalk to use?
You didn't have fire protection?
You didn't have children in your neighborhood that went to school?
You didn't have a park in your neighborhood?

The propery taxes alone helped bank roll these types of things that many municipal budgets have major problems with, including Mpls.

Look, I understand. I am biased too since I am a former baseball player as well as a life-long Twins/Vikings fan... If anything I am more opposed to Target Field than a Vikings Stadium... At least with a multi-use stadium it can be used up to 300 times a year. It can be an attraction. Something that is fun to show off. Something that will bring in new people and visitors. New people buy homes and cars and visitors rent cars and pay for hotels and restaurants. With Target Field, it's used April-October, every other day on average. Then it sits under snow for 6 months (ha-ha )

Are there things that part of my taxes pay for that I don't really enjoy? Sure. I know it's nothing, but in my city I pay for streetlights and water/sewer. I pay $3.50 a month to my city for 'Streetlights'. I don't have one single streetlight on my street. Nor anywhere near where I live. That's $42 a year. To me it's not really a big deal since I guess I help my community ensuring it's a safer, more asthetically pleasing place to live.

I am like most people when I think that our taxes should be used on things that benefits us all (for the most part). Taxes shouldn't be hand-picked to specialized areas. And that's where stadiums fall in. But I am also a fan of doing things right. I believe that the stadium debacle is inevitably going to result in the building of a partially public funded mega-stadium. So, let's do it right.

[knke0204]

I don't think the push-back for a new Multi-Use Facility (That's what I'm calling it now) would be as intense if there weren't such harsh economic times.

I think a few things from the Target Field Legislation are interesting:


* A quick background. A Minnesota State Law was passed in 1997 said that anytime a county wished to raise it's sales tax, it has to go before a vote (referendum). However, the law also states that a county may seek the State's permission to raise a sales tax without the voter's approval.

* In April 2005 Hennepin County and the Twins reached a deal that would need to be approved by the Hennepin County board. The deal states that 1/3 would be paid by the Twins and the rest by a .15% increase in sales tax.

* In the weeks to follow the Hennepin County Board approved the deal and the Minnesota Legislature passed the bill allowing it to go around a vote. By 2006 it was approved the Minnesota House allowing it to for surely pass any vote and it was approved that a public subsidy of $392 million through the increased sales tax.

* The $522 million project plan was approved by the Hennepin County Board in summer 2006 and was passed by Commissioner Johnson, Opta, Stenglein, McLaughlin and Dorfman. ::Kind of an interesting part:: Commissioner Dorfman initially opposed the bill saying it "was a bad idea for the tax payer", but then switched her vote saying the park was a "done deal and the primary focus now is on implementing it in the most reasonable way possible"

* It should be noted that the land was purchased mostly by the Twins $16 million to $13 million, even when developers had valued the land at nearly $65 million. Hmm.. I wonder what the property taxes are on land valued at $65 million?

Just a few points that play out the making of the Twins stadium. You all should know my stance on the topic: I really don't care. I believe it's something that is inevitable and I'm with Commissioner Dorfman in that it should just get done in the most feasible way. Again, I'm biased (I'm a Twins/Vikings fan) but I still don't really care whose money it is. I look at it as an asset, an investment, a piece of community pride that is well worth the measily tax burden on me. But we're all different and I understand that.

At the same time, most of this was done by elected officials. These people were put into office to make decisions for their constituents and their votes spoke for their people. If there was soo much opposition, than Hennepin County residents should have been writing, calling, emailing, calling, writing, visiting, writing and calling their County Commissioners, R.T Rybak, MN State Legislators, the Pohlads, etc. That's how it goes.

[yoyoma02]

Originally Posted by knke0204

I don't think the push-back for a new Multi-Use Facility (That's what I'm calling it now) would be as intense if there weren't such harsh economic times.

I think a few things from the Target Field Legislation are interesting:


* A quick background. A Minnesota State Law was passed in 1997 said that anytime a county wished to raise it's sales tax, it has to go before a vote (referendum). However, the law also states that a county may seek the State's permission to raise a sales tax without the voter's approval.

* In April 2005 Hennepin County and the Twins reached a deal that would need to be approved by the Hennepin County board. The deal states that 1/3 would be paid by the Twins and the rest by a .15% increase in sales tax.

* In the weeks to follow the Hennepin County Board approved the deal and the Minnesota Legislature passed the bill allowing it to go around a vote. By 2006 it was approved the Minnesota House allowing it to for surely pass any vote and it was approved that a public subsidy of $392 million through the increased sales tax.

* The $522 million project plan was approved by the Hennepin County Board in summer 2006 and was passed by Commissioner Johnson, Opta, Stenglein, McLaughlin and Dorfman. ::Kind of an interesting part:: Commissioner Dorfman initially opposed the bill saying it "was a bad idea for the tax payer", but then switched her vote saying the park was a "done deal and the primary focus now is on implementing it in the most reasonable way possible"

* It should be noted that the land was purchased mostly by the Twins $16 million to $13 million, even when developers had valued the land at nearly $65 million. Hmm.. I wonder what the property taxes are on land valued at $65 million?

Just a few points that play out the making of the Twins stadium. You all should know my stance on the topic: I really don't care. I believe it's something that is inevitable and I'm with Commissioner Dorfman in that it should just get done in the most feasible way. Again, I'm biased (I'm a Twins/Vikings fan) but I still don't really care whose money it is. I look at it as an asset, an investment, a piece of community pride that is well worth the measily tax burden on me. But we're all different and I understand that.

At the same time, most of this was done by elected officials. These people were put into office to make decisions for their constituents and their votes spoke for their people. If there was soo much opposition, than Hennepin County residents should have been writing, calling, emailing, calling, writing, visiting, writing and calling their County Commissioners, R.T Rybak, MN State Legislators, the Pohlads, etc. That's how it goes.

Wow, you spent way too much time on this.

[audadvnc]

Stadium lobbyists have all the time they need. More time = more money.

[cdubs3201]

A stadium DOES give plenty of benefit to the state. It's not just helping a few downtown business, it's all about MILLIONS OF DOLLARS IN TAX REVENUE. I think the state lost like $8M the day the Vikings had to play in detroit after the roof collapsed.

Here's another point: there are more markets out there than Los Angeles. Chicago could easily support two teams, and any owner trying to start up a new stadium and a new franchise in an even smaller market may be able to do so simply because he's got the green light to build a new stadium there.

People who say the Vikings will never leave, consider this: The Vikings are a business, the NFL is a business. Sports would not exist without money. They are going to do everything they can to make the most money possible. They don't care about your loyalty to the team, they'll build new loyalty in a new city.

[cdubs3201]

Originally Posted by yoyoma02

Wow, you spent way too much time on this.

So someone knows how to do a little research and make a point that counteracts yours and now they "spent too much time on it"? okay....

As for not getting anything, I feel like there's a lot of people who claim that since they don't GO to the games, they are paying for nothing.

What about people who watch the games on TV? That's a lot of people. Do you think the right to call a team your own and a local franchise, and the ability to watch that high level of entertainment in the comfort of your own home should be absolutely free? HBO charges for access to their channels, netflix gives you movies at a monthly rate....what's a measely tax increase to you if it keeps your team in the area and allow you to watch all their games on TV?

I didn't appreciate this until I moved to Chicago, where now I have to pay $350 a year to DirectTV or go to a bar if I want to see the Vikings play on sunday. I'd much rather pay a smidge more in taxes to see every game at home than $350 a year.

[knke0204]

I just think it's crazy that so many Hennpin County Residents get angry that their county invests in a $30 million piece of land, and put a building on it that generates tax dollars. Parks don't generate money. Trails and paths and bike lanes don't generate money.

Think of all the money Mpls *****es away on bike lanes and trails and bike paths. I don't ride bikes. Not since I was 14 anyway. I don't use trails. Why should I get taxed on sales to pay for that crap? At least I am for taxing me now for a return later.