Why aren't there any hotels in Uptown? (Minneapolis, Isle: apartments, homes)

[talktobrent]

Originally Posted by uptown_urbanist

I don't agree. Many of the spots in Uptown are NOT youth-oriented; there's far more to the area than Drink and Cowboy Slim's. (not to mention that there are decent dining options; not necessarily the "best" in the Twin Cities, but restaurants like Lucia's can certainly hold their own in the quality department, barbette is a popular wine option, the rooftop bars are hopping, and places like Chino Latino are trendy and have a draw that goes beyond just the college crowd) In any case, developers have come very, very close to building a hotel in recent years (2007), and now that building is once again going on at rapid pace in Uptown I would assume that building a smaller boutique hotel will soon be in the cards. The appeal is obvious -- proximity to the lakes, a busy neighborhood with a lot going on. Those looking for a young party scene are more likely to stick downtown and its clubs, not Uptown. I don't think the Uptown hotel would be focused on those strictly looking for a place to crash after a night of hard partying. Those with business strictly in the downtown offices will stick downtown. An Uptown hotel would be more along the lines of the boutique neighborhood hotels found in most other cities: not a classic "business" hotel, not a crash pad for the party set. As recently as 2007 there were THREE hotels in the works in Uptown (here's one then-proposed plan), so one of these days I think it's a safe bet that one will open. I would also guess that the audience is geared to the standard boutique traveler crowd -- those who prefer to stay in an interesting neighborhood to the central business district,, whether they're business travelers or traveling for fun. It's also one of the densest neighborhoods in the city, and from personal experience I can say that many local residents would like a convenient hotel for friends and relatives to stay while in town. For that matter, a hotel like that could probably also do a good wedding/reunion business. It's a far more "diverse" location than the suburban chain hotels or the downtown business hotels.

I agree with your points, but I've worked in hotels before and it's difficult to run a hotel without some diversified clientele to keep a steady revenue stream. That's why business travelers are important... they fill rooms on the weekdays. A small boutique hotel in Uptown might do OK on weekends, but during the week, especially in the winter, I can't imagine they would do too well. While Minneapolis may have alot to offer for a city its size, it's not an SF or NYC with a huge influx of tourists. Yes, there's alot of people out there interested in staying in "real" neighborhoods, but I just don't think Minneapolis quite has the influx of tourists to support that niche. I'm not trying to be anti-hotel, but I just think it's less realistic than people think. Uptown is an exciting neighborhood, but it's certainly not a Brooklyn or Santa Monica in terms of media exposure and outside familiarity.

[Cruz Azul Guy]

How do you explain that there is a big Sheraton hotel in Midtown and NE but absolutely nothing can be found in the Uptown area? I personally think that the Uptown area would be a prime location to put a nice hotel.

[GBCommenter]

Sheraton Midtown has two things going for it: 1) tax incentives the developers received as part of the whole Midtown Commons revitalization project (for better or worse), and 2) they have a steady stream of business travelers through Allina and Wells Fargo Home Mortgage offices not terribly far away. They also are a prime location for all the hospitals within walking distance (Abbott Northwestern, Children's, plus the various clinics).

NE? Which hotel(s) are you talking about in NE?

As far as the 2007 projects, the situation then was there was a relative tight hotel market in downtown at that point. You then had separate developers looking at reports saying this and independently went a-building hotels. You then added Aloft, Hotel Minneapolis, and Hotel Ivy which then tipped the supply from tight to glut. And then, of course, 2008 and the economy crashed. To be honest, hotels are still in recovery mode.

Also keep in mind with the economic recession, financing for potentially risky projects (such as a boutique hotel) is hard to come by. Like it or not, that means more likely to build a hotel it will require someone to put up hard cash for the whole project or most of it - and in the current financial situation there seems to be a shortage of individuals thinking this is a good investment of their dollars.

Uptown is an interesting neighborhood, but I have to agree with talktobrent that the business mix over the course of a year isn't yet there to make a project financially viable.

[Cruz Azul Guy]

Originally Posted by GBCommenter

NE? Which hotel(s) are you talking about in NE?

We stayed at this hotel back in 2008 and I was pretty sure it was a Sheraton. The hotel was somewhere right off of Hwy 280. Right now the only one I see is a Ramada Plaza right by the 280/35W split...that must be the hotel I'm thinking of.

[audadvnc]

Originally Posted by Slig

We stayed at this hotel back in 2008 and I was pretty sure it was a Sheraton. The hotel was somewhere right off of Hwy 280. Right now the only one I see is a Ramada Plaza right by the 280/35W split...that must be the hotel I'm thinking of.

Yep. Ramada Plaza Mpls used to be the old Sheraton 4 Points, since bought out and refurbished within the past couple years. It's popular for State Fair and University event attendees, and is about 10 minutes from downtown.

[GBCommenter]

Ahhh...yes - was a Four Points by Sheraton that was corporately owned by Starwood (parent company of Sheraton). They sold it some years back as it no longer fit the Four Points model the chain was moving to. Another entity bought it and reflagged it a Ramada with some renovations - a questionable move IMHO given the reputation of Ramada, but not my money.

Anyway, Ramada is an odd little egg for a location. They do have a fair amount of corporate offices around there which benefits them. Also somewhat convenient for Fair and U of M (probably more Fairgrounds). However, not much else nearby for a traveller.

[uptown_urbanist]

Yes, I would agree that Uptown is not going to have a hotel right now -- but eventually it will be a prime location for one. Office space is being added, and as the economy improves that will presumably speed up. I had forgotten about all the other hotels build during the 2007 or so hotel glut. It makes sense that there isn't one there now, but I still think there's a good chance that there will be the demand to make a go of it (year-round) within the next decade, assuming that the economy continues to improve and that businesses and office space continues to be added to the greater Uptown area.

I think the Midtown location benefits tremendously from the hospitals. Also, they were built before the economic crash. Perhaps if things had moved faster on the Uptown front back when there was all the interest then Uptown, too, would have a hotel now.

[queenswake]

All good points. I forget that Minneapolis really isn't a destination for tourists like other places. Most people visiting are either coming for the MOA, already know people in the area and are staying with them, or are business travelers staying in the suburbs near the offices or downtown.

It could be a destination if there was any kind of continuity between attractions. I think that's what really hurts Minneapolis as a tourist destination -- wide dispersal of attractions. And without any tourist-friendly mass transit to go between them all, it makes it hard. For example, in any other city, something like the Midtown Global Market would be an attraction. But here, because it's so isolated, it's frequented by locals much more than any tourists. Then you have Minnehaha Falls over there, Stone Arch Bridge over here, downtown here, Uptown there, Walker Art Center here, MIA there, river here, lakes over there. Without any single one gathering point that is the feature of the city. And most of these accessible by car only. You're not going to have tourists super excited to learn the bus system to travel between all of these places.

Like uptown said, I think I'm trying to make Minneapolis into something it's not. But I think Minneapolis really needs one single landmark place and then LRT/streetcars/trolley feeding off to all of the other attractions. I suppose this would be either whatever replaces Block E or a revamp of Nicollet Mall to really create a bold statement. Something unique that people would instantly think of when they thought of Minneapolis.

[GBCommenter]

Originally Posted by queenswake

All good points. I forget that Minneapolis really isn't a destination for tourists like other places. Most people visiting are either coming for the MOA, already know people in the area and are staying with them, or are business travelers staying in the suburbs near the offices or downtown.

It could be a destination if there was any kind of continuity between attractions. I think that's what really hurts Minneapolis as a tourist destination -- wide dispersal of attractions. And without any tourist-friendly mass transit to go between them all, it makes it hard. For example, in any other city, something like the Midtown Global Market would be an attraction. But here, because it's so isolated, it's frequented by locals much more than any tourists. Then you have Minnehaha Falls over there, Stone Arch Bridge over here, downtown here, Uptown there, Walker Art Center here, MIA there, river here, lakes over there. Without any single one gathering point that is the feature of the city. And most of these accessible by car only. You're not going to have tourists super excited to learn the bus system to travel between all of these places.

Like uptown said, I think I'm trying to make Minneapolis into something it's not. But I think Minneapolis really needs one single landmark place and then LRT/streetcars/trolley feeding off to all of the other attractions. I suppose this would be either whatever replaces Block E or a revamp of Nicollet Mall to really create a bold statement. Something unique that people would instantly think of when they thought of Minneapolis.

I wouldn't quite say there is no tourist potential, just different than a Chicago or San Francisco. Target Field, despite a shaky team this year, is still a big tourist draw. If there is football, that will bring people into town also. There's the rivers and lakes, plus museums and theaters. It's just the tourist season is really focused on about 4 months a year.

As far as Block E, the current talk is a revamp and turn it into a casino-type complex. While there will be tourist potential, I'm not sure that will be a "gotta see it" deal for Minneapolis. It will just be something to do if you're here anyway (IMHO).

Anyway, if there is the business level to support it and someone wants to invest into Hotel Uptown, I think it could have it's niche. There just needs to be some different dynamics then we see right now.

[uptown_urbanist]

The person I spoke with said that the hoteliers weren't worried about tourist potential in the summer, or even winter weekend nights, but were concerned about filling weekday rooms at a high enough price in the winter months. In general, the Twin Cities in January and February isn't a popular tourist destination, and presumably even many visiting friends and family members choose to come during more pleasant months.