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Location: Cleveland bound with MPLS in the rear-view
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GBCommenter
I might respectfully disagree with my online discussion acquaintance on if it is worth it to be one of the highest taxed states. I hesitate to agree there is necessarily a causation to the correlation of high tax state and high quality lifestyle. If there were, then all of CA and Detroit should be sitting with angels and St. Peter on the park benches. I would say there are other qualities that cause a high quality lifestyle, frankly, in spite of high taxes.
That said and back to the question - as others mentioned you do not have an income tax specifically in the city. You'll just need to look at the overall tax situation to make a fair assessment of whether the pay you'll receive and cost of living overall makes MN the right move for you.
I am a Minneapolis resident. It is correct that there is no city income tax. There are, however, additional sales taxes in both Hennepin county, where Minneapolis is located, and in the city itself. They are not terribly high, except in the downtown area, where entertainment taxes can push the sales tax on a beer up near 20%. Property taxes are also a bit higher as much of the CBD is in a TIF district. Much of this extra taxation is to pay for our beloved sports facilities but that's another thread. I won't get into a thing about whether or not it's "worth it" because that's just opinion and not worth a whole lot. Personally, I don't find the difference to be to bad and, since I work in downtown Minneapolis, I feel that I come out ahead versus the money and time I would spend commuting from a suburb.
Sales, property, state and federal are the only taxes you pay here. We don't have any city/municipal taxes, no personal property tax, etc. We do, however, have one of the highest taxed states in the US--but it's worth it.
I don't want to derail somebody else's thread too much, but what makes you say that the high taxes are worth it? I genuinely want to hear you explain what you love so much about Minnesota as I am in the process of considering whether to relocate here permanently (or perhaps I should say "indefinitely"). I know you would want to say that Minnesota schools are better than every other state's, and I would like to leave that out of it because I personally do not believe that Minnesota schools would serve my family that much better (if at all) than I can find in the location that I would otherwise be living in. So, aside from the schools, I would like to hear what it is that you like so much about the Twin Cities that makes it worth the higher taxes, etc. (Just for perspective, between differences in salary/bonus and income taxes, my take-home pay would be approximately 13% less per year in Minneapolis than in the other city--at least in the immediate future... plus housing and property taxes are both more expensive in Minneapolis.)
Edit: Also, just to preemptively clarify--I'm not looking for you to bash Mississippi. I am looking for you to explain why you think Minnesota might be worth the cost for me--or that you don't.
I don't want to derail somebody else's thread too much, but what makes you say that the high taxes are worth it? I genuinely want to hear you explain what you love so much about Minnesota as I am in the process of considering whether to relocate here permanently (or perhaps I should say "indefinitely"). I know you would want to say that Minnesota schools are better than every other state's, and I would like to leave that out of it because I personally do not believe that Minnesota schools would serve my family that much better (if at all) than I can find in the location that I would otherwise be living in. So, aside from the schools, I would like to hear what it is that you like so much about the Twin Cities that makes it worth the higher taxes, etc. (Just for perspective, between differences in salary/bonus and income taxes, my take-home pay would be approximately 13% less per year in Minneapolis than in the other city--at least in the immediate future... plus housing and property taxes are both more expensive in Minneapolis.)
Edit: Also, just to preemptively clarify--I'm not looking for you to bash Mississippi. I am looking for you to explain why you think Minnesota might be worth the cost for me--or that you don't.
Like I said earlier--go live in a low tax state and see what they have to offer compared to MN.
Let's start at birth:
-Top hospitals in the nation--Mayo, Abbot, HCMC, etc. and along with that one of the best medical communities in the nation throughout life
-ECFE program-no other state in the nation offers this and MN has had it for over 40 years
--schools-they ARE the best in the nation. Everyone I know that moves here from out of state says they can't believe how much better they are here. It isn't just about test scores either, it is about the value the vast majority of people in MN put on getting a good education and that translates to fewer problems with discipline in the classroom, kids just work harder on the whole, almost ALL of the kids in MN STAY in school, they participate in things at school, etc. It is the atmosphere as a whole--which includes top tests scores, etc.
--community services--I see posts from people from other states and talking with friends and family that live out of state and they just don't have access to the programs we have here--let's single out programs for disabled kids. One friend in NC has a severely disabled son. He is 16 and functions on the level of a one year old. They can't get respite care for him, they don't have any financial assistance with in-home care for him. They are living on a school nurse and disability pay so it isn't like they make a lot of money. They do get federal SSDI for their son but that is it. Compare that to our neighbors with an autistic child. He is 14, functions at the level of a 4 year old or so. They have county, state and federal aid to help pay for expenses for him-medical, in-home care, etc. He has free, year round schooling, including a bus that picks him up at his door and drops him off at his door daily. These are just a few of the services he receives.
--roads--now, roads in the south are in much better shape, not because of upkeep but because of weather, but when you compare roads in MN to other cold weather places, our roads are in fantastic shape, they are repaired on a good schedule or as needed, snow removal is tops.
--park systems--we have fantastic state and county parks--on top of city parks. They are well kept up and are very user friendly. These also help towns look nicer and I think that filters over to homeowners and keeping up their properties.
--neighborhoods in general are nicer, better kept here then pretty much everywhere else I have visited. It is rare to drive along and see used appliances sitting in front yards, old toilets just dumped in a lawn, garbage piled places--common in the south.
--intellectual forces in the community-MN has a highly educated adult population, that alone makes for a better lifestyle.
--business community-it's well diversified and stable and even in this horrendous economy, the job market here has stayed relatively stable.
Back to schools-if you are choosing between say WI or IA and MN, no, you aren't going to see a lot of difference between the school systems, but if you are moving from the south, you will see a NOTICEABLE difference. I can think of two specific examples--just had a family move here from OK-not a bad area, not the best. Their kids were in the top 20% of their classes there but were concerned about moving into our district so they had their kids take a placement test--both of their high achieving students placed almost a YEAR behind their peers here. The school offered remedial classes to catch them up this summer. Another family I know of that moved here from Coppell, Texas ended up holding their kids back a year to catch up because they were SO far behind.
I also think that there are other intangibles that just make this a great place to live-overall happiness of people, people's willingness to help you out, how friendly people are at the stores, etc. When you combine these things, it is just an overall great place to live.
I agree, Minneapolis is an expensive place to live, but again, having lived in low tax states, I gladly pay our taxes to get the above services and more to live in MN.
I'd consider myself fairly fiscally conservative, but find alot of the high tax complaints for Minnesota to be without a whole a lot of merit. For alot of the great things we have in this state, with protection and upkeep of alot of parkland and wilderness, schools, healthcare, social services and infrastructure, I couldn't imagine things would be better if all of that money was instead going into private hands. Philanthropy is good too, but it only goes so far.
I'd consider myself fairly fiscally conservative, but find alot of the high tax complaints for Minnesota to be without a whole a lot of merit. For alot of the great things we have in this state, with protection and upkeep of alot of parkland and wilderness, schools, healthcare, social services and infrastructure, I couldn't imagine things would be better if all of that money was instead going into private hands. Philanthropy is good too, but it only goes so far.
I would suggest that monies not paid in taxes are staying in private hands as opposed to "going into private hands." The way you have it stated here seems to imply that wealth is initially collective and then might become private.
I'd consider myself fairly fiscally conservative, but find alot of the high tax complaints for Minnesota to be without a whole a lot of merit. For alot of the great things we have in this state, with protection and upkeep of alot of parkland and wilderness, schools, healthcare, social services and infrastructure, I couldn't imagine things would be better if all of that money was instead going into private hands. Philanthropy is good too, but it only goes so far.
My view is slightly different. I'd say: given all the great things we have in this state, citizens get a pretty good value for the taxes they have to pay here.
The distinction is that I don't think most of the things that make MN great have anything at all to do with high taxes. I think you could cut taxes and spending significantly, and MN would still be a great place to live. But the only states I can think of with both a good quality of life and low taxes are very low-population states like the Dakotas, New Hampshire, etc. that don't have as many opportunities because of their small size and rural nature.
Basically, even if MN taxes are unnecessarily high I'd still rather live here and pay them than live in most other parts of the country
I appreciate your mostly helpful post. I would have been surprised if you could have managed to respond to that question without a little bit of bashing the South and bragging about Minnesota schools, so I will just be glad that you mostly stayed on message (positives about Minneapolis rather than negatives about elsewhere) and only devoted about 1/3 of the post to schools.
I am mindful of the fact that it is simply more expensive to keep a society running in the relatively extreme climate of Minnesota than it is is other parts of the country--the road maintenance and snowplows being one (two?) example(s).
I also agree that there is a pretty good business community here in the Twin Cities that seems to be relatively stable at the moment. I am not sure what the future holds in terms of long-term shifts, but for the moment, the economy does seem pretty strong.
In the spirit of fostering a well-educated adult population, however, I will respond to a few things that you said that I think are unfair characterizations, if not outright ignorant...
Quote:
Originally Posted by golfgal
Like I said earlier--go live in a low tax state and see what they have to offer compared to MN.
I have spent the majority of my life in a state with no income tax. Like Minneapolis, the particular city where I lived is renowned for its health care industry, extensive park system, and high quality of life.
Quote:
Originally Posted by golfgal
It is rare to drive along and see used appliances sitting in front yards, old toilets just dumped in a lawn, garbage piled places--common in the south.
Not sure whether you actually think this... but assuming that you do, I would highly recommend visiting a metropolitan area (and the surrounding suburbs) in the South.
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