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I actually agree with MN-Born-n-Raised that Andover has the right to do whatever they want with their public streets; they are public streets and belong to the city as a whole, and are not part of the property of the homes that face them. In this case the public (or at least their elected officials) has decided that it is in the interest of the public to keep the streets clear of cars. Presumably some of that's for plowing, but perhaps it also makes it for safer walking (assuming most of Andover doesn't have sidewalks?) during the winter months, too? That said, it does seem like a waste of space, but people presumably realize that rule before they move in or before they acquire lots of stuff to put in their garages.
That said, I think people should have a fair amount of freedom to do whatever they want with their private property, as long as it's not hurting others. If it's causing a health or an environmental risk then I think it's worthy of some civic intervention, but don't consider "eyesores" to rise to that level.
I don't think it was arrogant. Just a well stated opinion. Some may disagree and that is just fine.
I think it is a two point issue. Who has the control?, and how strict would a reasonable restriction be? My personal opinion is that it is best to have home owner associations in place to control rules regarding what you can or cannot park on your property and any construction and landscape standards, rental rules etc. This makes it a bit easier in most cases for homeowners to decide if they like the rules or if they don't.
On Street Parking is pretty clearly public domain issue, but homeowner association rules pretty much make it a non issue because people that have a problem with rules on parking would not purchase into an area that has moderate to tight restrictions to begin with.
I think people that want clean and tidy streets would be motivated to purchase into an area with homeowner association. Seems a bit over the top for entire city to put rules in place that create a pseudo association with rules that seem rather similar to what many homeowner associations have in place.
I don't think it was arrogant. However, it was a little more extreme. This family keeps good care of their house and yard; they just happen to have a couple more cars/trailers than most in the neighborhood (that of which are used daily and in good shape). While I can agree that it is safe to have an ordinance about parking on the street if there is a supposed storm coming, I don't think that it should be enforced when there's no snow on the ground and there is no chance of snow-fall in the near future. My thoughts are that these tickets were merely for generating revenue, unfortunately...
How the heck does someone's car not being in a garage affect your life in any way? You don't like how something looks, then avert your eyes. Such is life in a free society.
There may have been a safety issue with the broken window, but yes, to just call-in a complaint instead of bringing it to your neighbor's attention first is arrogant. The equivalent of a renter calling in a noise complaint without first politely asking the neighbor to keep it down. That constitutes basic courtesy.
How the heck does someone's car not being in a garage affect your life in any way?
When you have 3 junk cars parked on the side of the house or in your back yard totaling 6 cars for 3 drivers, there is a group of people like me (called the majority) that thinks it is an eyesore. For whatever reason, the majority of home buyers attempt to distance themselves from people who store junkers on their lot. So to answer your question, if you remove a large group of buyers who are "arrogant" like me, this will result in a lower resale value. Since my resale value does affect my life, I have a problem with a trashy looking neighborhood. This thing called resale value is a well known phenomena. I'm taking the time to explain it to you because I suspect you might be one of those people who think it's "their right" to have their yard look like crap.
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Originally Posted by ManBearPig1
..but yes, to just call-in a complaint instead of bringing it to your neighbor's attention first is arrogant.
Parking junkers on your lot is a Andover city violation. If someone lacks common sense, I cannot help them. As I mentioned, my neighbor cleaned up their mess when they were forced and it returned in another year. It took them a few times but I think the fines started to add up.
Hypothetically speaking... Let's say I lived next to your eye sore. I walked up to you and I nicely said that your cars bothered me. I'm guessing you would tell me off. You might say something like this:
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Originally Posted by ManBearPig1
"How the heck does someone's car not being in a garage affect your life in any way? You don't like how something looks, then avert your eyes. Such is life in a free society."
I recognized my neighbor might have said that to me. Therefore, I skipped a step and let the city do their job.
Resale value only affects you if you're trying to sell your home. And it's not a legitimate reason to force someone to do what you want them to with their property. The "majority" doesn't get to take away the rights of the "minority" just because it thinks it knows better.
There are some places where an African American moving-in next store will decrease property values. Should they drive such neighbors out of town there?
Also, if you don't want to worry about resale values, you could always rent.
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Originally Posted by MN-Born-n-Raised
Hypothetically speaking... Let's say I lived next to your eye sore. I walked up to you and I nicely said that your cars bothered me. I'm guessing you would tell me off. You might say something like this:
If there was some potential safety issue, like the broken window, then I would thank you. If it was something entirely on my property not affecting you in anyway, then I would politely ask how it was any of your business and what the problem actually was. If there was a legitimate problem, I'd probably work with you. If you just don't like seeing my cars, well, I don't like seeing kids, but I'm not going to ask you to keep yours locked inside. But the point is you didn't even try to work with me. You thought yourself above me and too good to even consider me worth the common courtesy of talking to me like an adult and human being. So, yeah, I'd think you're pretty arrogant.
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Originally Posted by MN-Born-n-Raised
I skipped a step and let the city do their job.
It's not the proper role of city government to treat every property within its boundaries as if the city is some massive Home Owners' Association.
I actually agree with MN-Born-n-Raised that Andover has the right to do whatever they want with their public streets; they are public streets and belong to the city as a whole, and are not part of the property of the homes that face them.
Agreed, but I don't think anyone on this thread was stating otherwise. People, like me, just happen to not agree with the ordinance and prefer areas where street parking is permitted.
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That said, I think people should have a fair amount of freedom to do whatever they want with their private property, as long as it's not hurting others. If it's causing a health or an environmental risk then I think it's worthy of some civic intervention, but don't consider "eyesores" to rise to that level.
Agreed. So you're saying you don't take issue to things like old cars parked on somebody's property, uncut grass, and lawn art (think the house at 33rd St S and Bloomington Ave). Me neither.
Also, relying on city ordinances to avoid dialogue with your neighbors is way too passive-agressive for my taste. What is wrong with telling your neighbor about an issue you have with their property? I did it when my neighbor abstained from repainting his fence for a long time. He was receptive to my advice and his fence was repainted within days. So there you go, we were able to find resolution without being forced to adhere to control-freak ordinances.
Agreed, but I don't think anyone on this thread was stating otherwise. People, like me, just happen to not agree with the ordinance and prefer areas where street parking is permitted.
Agreed. So you're saying you don't take issue to things like old cars parked on somebody's property, uncut grass, and lawn art (think the house at 33rd St S and Bloomington Ave). Me neither.
Also, relying on city ordinances to avoid dialogue with your neighbors is way too passive-agressive for my taste. What is wrong with telling your neighbor about an issue you have with their property? I did it when my neighbor abstained from repainting his fence for a long time. He was receptive to my advice and his fence was repainted within days. So there you go, we were able to find resolution without being forced to adhere to control-freak ordinances.
I agree with you. I think street parking should be allowed, and I am always complaining about the permit-only parking found in places like Uptown -- I figure those are public streets, and if the residents living there put a priority on having guaranteed available parking spaces outside of their homes then they should not have chosen to live in a neighborhood with congested parking. I don't have a problem with SOME restrictions -- not allowing cars to park on streets for days, for example, and am open to some limitations on time for those not holding permits, as I think cities have the right to manage parking spaces for the public good, "public" meaning beyond just those who live on the block in question (although their needs/desires should be discussed or considered during the decision processes, too). Mostly I'm trying to be consistent: if I think the streets of, say, Minneapolis belong to the public and not to the homeowners (and can therefore be managed by the city on behalf of the public good), then I think the same should apply to Andover, even if I think their decision to ban street parking is foolish.
I potentially have problems with uncut grass because one could perhaps make a public health argument against it, although I don't know enough about the pros and cons -- could be that there are some environmental benefits. I'd rather see an overgrown lawn than one that has one of those "stay off -- pesticides" signs. As far a lawn art, paint choice, etc., people should be able to do whatever they want, even if goes against the majority's aesthetic tastes.
Resale value only affects you if you're trying to sell your home.
I figured you didn't understand the concept resale value. Allow me to explain. There were homes for sale that were bought and sold while the junkers were parked out in his yard. People who didn't like the look (the majority) didn't buy those homes. Inevitably, a junky looking neighborhood won't command as much money. So with these lower resale values create new lower comparables. The bank (in the form of appraised values) dictate what your house is worth. The bank stares at comparables when MY homes goes on the market. The people who moved in were much more relaxed on how their yard looks. Now the new neighbor thinks it is a great idea to have his entire cement business slowly go from his new 6 car garage that he built and decides to leave his equipment outside. So the cycle expands. By the way, that is against a city ordinance (and is why he built a garage). I did talk with my neighbor about it and he took care of it. The other neighbor was too far gone for hope.
Hence, the city of Andover wants to pushout that junky look and create a nicer looking city. This is the same council / culture that allowed the 15 junk yard business permits to expire which forced them out of town. I don't agree with that but now you know the city culture. If you like to have the freedom of parking anything you want in your driveway and on the side of your home, Andover will be a terrible city choice!
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Originally Posted by ManBearPig1
If it was something entirely on my property not affecting you in anyway, then I would politely ask how it was any of your business and what the problem actually was.
It is my business when you lower my resale value! Since you wouldn't change with logic, the next step is to call the city. Now you would be upset at me when they levy a fine. Now you would hate my kids even more. By the way, you are a curmudgeon if you don't like kids.
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This thing called resale value is a well known phenomena. I'm taking the time to explain it to you because I suspect you might be one of those people who think it's "their right" to have their yard look like crap. 
Allow me to explain. There were homes for sale that were bought and sold while the junkers were parked out in his yard. People who didn't like the look (the majority) didn't buy those homes. Inevitably, a junky looking neighborhood won't command as much money. So with these lower resale values create new lower comparables. The bank (in the form of appraised values) dictate what your house is worth. The bank stares at comparables when MY homes goes on the market. The people who moved in were much more relaxed on how their yard looks. Now the new neighbor thinks it is a great idea to have his entire cement business slowly go from his new 6 car garage that he built and decides to leave his equipment outside. So the cycle expands. By the way, that is against a city ordinance (and is why he built a garage). I did talk with my neighbor about it and he took care of it. The other neighbor was too far gone for hope.
