So what is St. Paul like?

[cjedstrom]

Originally Posted by xandrex

While I'm preferable to Minneapolis, I find St. Paul is definitely a gorgeous city. But I have to disagree a bit about traffic. I was just in downtown St. Paul after an event trying to pick someone up. I don't know if it's their grid, the street capacity, or poor police traffic management, but it was impossible to get just about anywhere (including the other side of downtown) with all the traffic snarls. I ended up on a road that kicked me out of downtown (but somehow still had congestion from the event...hmm...), and had to circle around with incredibly slow-moving traffic. Definitely strange.

Well thats an exception rather than the rule. Yes it is going to be congested and busy after you let 20,000 people out of an arena after a hockey game or a concert. I used to work for the MN WIld so I am well aware of the backups that occur after the games. It isnt fun but I am pretty sure I experience the exact same thing leaving a Twins game in Minneapolis.

[xandrex]

Originally Posted by cjedstrom

Well thats an exception rather than the rule. Yes it is going to be congested and busy after you let 20,000 people out of an arena after a hockey game or a concert. I used to work for the MN WIld so I am well aware of the backups that occur after the games. It isnt fun but I am pretty sure I experience the exact same thing leaving a Twins game in Minneapolis.

I partially agree that it would be an issue for things happening in Minneapolis, but I think it helps that there seems to be wider streets and more lanes in Minneapolis. This doesn't always help the pedestrian experience, of course. But I just know I got lost more than once trying to turn around, only to run into yet another one way that wouldn't let me go the direction I wanted to. It probably also helps that it seems Minneapolis has more easy "exits" out of downtown. When I need to get home across the river from DT Minneapolis, I could go across 3-4 bridges that are essentially downtown (4 if we sort of lump the Plymouth Avenue bridge in). I am unfamiliar with parts of DT St. Paul, but it seems the X is perfectly positioned to cause the most problems for everyone trying to get to the highway who wasn't at the event.

[Beenhere4ever]

Driven downtown St Paul for 40 years. It is a myth that it is any harder than downtown Minneapolis. Of course, anyone with more experience in either downtown will have better luck than anyone with less. But spend the same number of hours getting experience, and nothing will be that different. Of course, the fact that they have been building a RAILROAD through the place might have a tiny bit of relevance to navigating in the last year or two. Building surface railroads have a way of doing that. The Hiawatha only ran on a couple of downtown streets with very little switching directions. Most of its length was on a separate right of way. I'm still waiting with anticipation what happens to St Paul traffic when the trains are running. I'm told by many "oh that's all been studied and figured out". Sorry when I hear that kind of stuff, I roll my eyes. Recent efforts to facilitate traffic on Hiawatha Avenue and all the tardy explanations why it couldn't be done right back ten years ago makes me really skeptical that we know what problems have been set aside.

But fact is no one has to drive on University or across University very much. If drivers search for the path of least resistance, they will find it. Downtown St Paul is another matter. That might be a learning curve even for us who first drove in in the 60's.

[xandrex]

Originally Posted by Beenhere4ever

Driven downtown St Paul for 40 years. It is a myth that it is any harder than downtown Minneapolis. Of course, anyone with more experience in either downtown will have better luck than anyone with less. But spend the same number of hours getting experience, and nothing will be that different. Of course, the fact that they have been building a RAILROAD through the place might have a tiny bit of relevance to navigating in the last year or two.

The construction wasn't an issue for me. But I'd also argue "myth" is not the correct word. I'd say we have differing opinions of driving in DT St. Paul (that said, some DT Minneapolis driving is no fun during rush hour!)

[chilaili]

All I can add to the traffic controversy is that I always got lost in Minneapolis and never in St Paul. Must be my Irish blood

[Beenhere4ever]

Originally Posted by chilaili

All I can add to the traffic controversy is that I always got lost in Minneapolis and never in St Paul. Must be my Irish blood

Jesse "The Body" says the Irish did it on purpose.