Twin cities has the largest black- white unemployment gap (Minneapolis: crime rate, house)

[green_mariner]

Originally Posted by Beenhere4ever

I'd love to know how many black families are new to the area. There was a time when conservatives claimed poor black families moved here for generous public assistance. Never did get followed up by the media to confirm or refute that. But some kind of demographic peculiarity could be behind the gap. How many black-owned businesses does Minneapolis have? The Hispanics moved in and there was an explosion of those businesses. Not sure about the East African immigrants. Though Halal shops and coffee shops seem pretty common in South Minneapolis. Maybe this is an element in the disparity. Maybe the practice of self-employment took care of the gap in other cities. I feel confident that there are a variety of elements working together here that explain the gap.

What is more interesting about this is many Blacks moved to Minnesota because jobs were scarce in other parts of the Midwest. In fact, MPR did an article on this in 1997:


MPR: Moving Up, Part One

[green_mariner]

In addition to what I last posted, I think what surprises me about this is that when I hear about cities with high unemployment rates among Blacks, I think of Milwaukee, Pittsburgh, and Detroit. Minneapolis and St. Paul don't come to mind as much. I know Minneapolis, Milwaukee, and Omaha have among the highest Black poverty rates in the USA(In Omaha 6 out of ever 10 Black children live below the poverty line). When I think of high unemployment rates among Blacks, Milwaukee,Pittsburgh,and Detroit come to the brain first.

[Beenhere4ever]

Just remember it is a RATIO. Both terms affect its size. If the WHITE workers are less likely to be unemployed that in the other cities, that increases the ratio as much as if black workers are more likely to be unemployed. As I tweeted, "nice statistic, but keep digging because the reasons are diverse".

Truth is, people keep dubious statistics around long after their usefulness has been disproven, just so that they can compare them over time. The CPI, the BLS unemployment rate, all these rates have known problems. But they keep stating them in order to measure "change". What gets shunted aside is that you might be "comparing" two bogus numbers.

So I have to say I don't know THAT much more about the racial problem here after reading the number than I knew before. We are a fluid society, policies can influence people to move around. And when they do, that can affect relative rates between their first location and all the ones they move to. If we had strict NATIONAL policies on unemployment, then we'd have a stake in the ground and we could look at what changes locally. But nothing is fixed in the USA. And that makes the meaning of these things very elusive.

[green_mariner]

Originally Posted by Beenhere4ever

Just remember it is a RATIO. Both terms affect its size. If the WHITE workers are less likely to be unemployed that in the other cities, that increases the ratio as much as if black workers are more likely to be unemployed. As I tweeted, "nice statistic, but keep digging because the reasons are diverse".

Truth is, people keep dubious statistics around long after their usefulness has been disproven, just so that they can compare them over time. The CPI, the BLS unemployment rate, all these rates have known problems. But they keep stating them in order to measure "change". What gets shunted aside is that you might be "comparing" two bogus numbers.

So I have to say I don't know THAT much more about the racial problem here after reading the number than I knew before. We are a fluid society, policies can influence people to move around. And when they do, that can affect relative rates between their first location and all the ones they move to. If we had strict NATIONAL policies on unemployment, then we'd have a stake in the ground and we could look at what changes locally. But nothing is fixed in the USA. And that makes the meaning of these things very elusive.

Funny you mention statistics. Some of my work as a "geographer in training"(I've got 24 days until my graduation) involves statistics. I've learned this. Statistics don't tell the whole story. Statistics don't always represent everyone in the population. People mention the statistics of Blacks in Minnesota being on welfare, being unemployed, being poor, being imprisoned, and other negative things. If people are going to use these statistics to point out everything bad about the Black population, I have to ask myself this: How do the statistics represent me? One of the most important statistics is the one you are working with. It is mentioned that Blacks in Minnesota have a higher proportion of the population in prison that many other states. It means Blacks in Minnesota are more likely to be in prison than in other states. However, how does the represent me, someone has never been arrested? Who says that if I move to Minnesota I will go to prison? No one. There is more to that statistic than meets the eye.

Same with the unemployment gap. There is more to the statistic than meets the eye. What if you are a Black man with a college degree living in another state? How much more would this increase your chances of being offered a job in Minneapolis if you wanted it? Alot to think about.

[Beenhere4ever]

All good points. It is one statistic. It may be one highly FLAWED statistic. If it was one HUNDRED percent accurate, it still would, by itself, raise a whole host of questions. I'm not gonna start grieving over something when I don't even know what it really means. I'm not even sure it portrays the other cities as better. To know that, I'd have to have a whole bunch of answers I don't have (and I suspect others don't, either.)

[green_mariner]

Originally Posted by Beenhere4ever

All good points. It is one statistic. It may be one highly FLAWED statistic. If it was one HUNDRED percent accurate, it still would, by itself, raise a whole host of questions. I'm not gonna start grieving over something when I don't even know what it really means. I'm not even sure it portrays the other cities as better. To know that, I'd have to have a whole bunch of answers I don't have (and I suspect others don't, either.)

I have to think about this statistic because among other places, the Twin Cities has been on my radar of places to live. Basically, I'm past ready for a change in geography. I've been in Georgia for a long time(Ironically, no southern accent). I've wanted to leave since high school and I always lived with the idea that Minnesota was more ahead than Georgia in terms of race relations. I learned that wasn't always the case. However, when I saw that statistic about the Black-White unemployment gap, the first thing that comes to mind is "As a Black man, will I be able to get a job in Minneapolis, or am I better off staying in Georgia"? For me, that is what that statistic means for me. I have to ask "What does this statistic mean for me"? Basically, I don't want to end up cynical. This is why looking behind the statistic is important. Does it mean I will face more discrimination here than anywhere else? Or does it mean nothing for me because of my educational level? Ultimately, we are all individuals, and should be approached as such. At the end of the day, each number in a statistic is an individual number. Each person involved is an individual.

[Beenhere4ever]

Honestly, I don't know if we're the most advanced, but I'm guessing we might be more advanced than Georgia, the place that sent Newt Gingrich to Congress. But more than Illinois, the president's home state? Not sure. Or the west coast? Again not sure. Are there any places online where black professionals discuss their experiences in different states? That might be the best place to ask. Does Ebony or Jet have discussion areas? I think blacks will tell each other the straight facts more than others. They'll see the subtler stuff we'll miss. I know I"ve had black bosses here in MN, so there definitely is mobility. But maybe there's a stiffer current to swim against. I'd be shocked if educated black people haven't rated the states. Massachussetts might be another place to consider. They were the first state to elect a black man to the U.S. Senate.

[green_mariner]

Originally Posted by Beenhere4ever

Honestly, I don't know if we're the most advanced, but I'm guessing we might be more advanced than Georgia, the place that sent Newt Gingrich to Congress. But more than Illinois, the president's home state? Not sure. Or the west coast? Again not sure. Are there any places online where black professionals discuss their experiences in different states? That might be the best place to ask. Does Ebony or Jet have discussion areas? I think blacks will tell each other the straight facts more than others. They'll see the subtler stuff we'll miss. I know I"ve had black bosses here in MN, so there definitely is mobility. But maybe there's a stiffer current to swim against. I'd be shocked if educated black people haven't rated the states. Massachussetts might be another place to consider. They were the first state to elect a black man to the U.S. Senate.

I've never really read Jet or Ebony magazine. I'm Black, and I do come from a Black household. However, I also grew up seeing more National Geographic magazines in my home than Ebony or Jet combined(all of them mine). I would know what gets written in Jet or Ebony.

Massachusetts might have elected a Black governor, but it wasn't the first. Virginia got there first. And Boston has had some severe issues with racism and racial tensions.

[Beenhere4ever]

Originally Posted by green_mariner

I've never really read Jet or Ebony magazine. I'm Black, and I do come from a Black household. However, I also grew up seeing more National Geographic magazines in my home than Ebony or Jet combined(all of them mine). I would know what gets written in Jet or Ebony.

Massachusetts might have elected a Black governor, but it wasn't the first. Virginia got there first. And Boston has had some severe issues with racism and racial tensions.

Not black governor, black US Senator. Edward Brooke. Yeh, Boston had problems. But Minneapolis had riots, that led to Northside turning from Jewish to black as the Jewish northsiders moved to western suburbs. So I don't think you can draw conclusions from that. As I say, you need to "look in the round", not go by single statistics or anecdotes.

[rcsteiner]

Originally Posted by Beenhere4ever

Honestly, I don't know if we're the most advanced, but I'm guessing we might be more advanced than Georgia, the place that sent Newt Gingrich to Congress.

Uh... Michele Bachman?

Georgia is two different worlds. There is the Atlanta metro, and there is the rest of Georgia. The two are on very different pages politically, and the Atlanta metro isn't exactly one united happy family, either. ITP vs. OTP, etc. However, it isn't backwards in most respects, and I suspect Newt wouldn't represent much of the metro these days. Maybe East Cobb?

Democrats down here are a different flavor from DFL democrats in Minnesota, anyway. Many are much more socially conservative that your typical DFL member, and at least a few Democratic politicians have switched to the GOP down here in recent years.