07-20-2012, 08:22 AM
1,807 posts, read
3,095,669 times
Reputation: 1518
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Glenfield
The loud cell phone talker had a blood alcohol content of 0.189 and can be seen wrestling with his brother shortly before the incident. It seems possible that the drunk could be considered threatening in some way. I don't know if that's what happened, but we also don't know if the guy charged was out of control. That he was a Minneapolis cop is interesting but irrelevant to the charges.
Can I just point out that this is a *classic* Minneapolis response?
We need to stop defending our jerk cops when they do bad things, people.
07-20-2012, 08:30 AM
Location: Twin Cities
5,831 posts, read
7,711,998 times
Reputation: 8867
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ghengis
fail, have you watched the video of the brothers "struggling"? simple brief horsing around and happened before the goon cop even showed up on the scene so that lame justification has zero merit. why does he run away if he was acting in self-defense?
Fail. I did watch the video and believe you have reached a conclusion that is in no way supported by what's there. The video does not show the state of mind of the brothers at the time. In fact, you can't completely see what's going on because it's obscured by an umbrella. I have no idea why he ran away. I'm just saying that the whole thing may be more complicated than the lynch mob here wants to believe.
07-20-2012, 08:37 AM
Location: Northern MN
3,869 posts, read
15,171,657 times
Reputation: 3614
I agree.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ghengis
fail, have you watched the video of the brothers "struggling"? simple brief horsing around and happened before the goon cop even showed up on the scene so that lame justification has zero merit. why does he run away if he was acting in self-defense?
The cop was off duty, he should have called the police.
The cop suffers from john Wayne syndrome.
The cop was not justified in punching him and he knew it, thus the attempt to flee. why would a cop flee? because he was effecting an arrest?
The guy was sitting down this can hardly be seen as a hostile stance.
Being drunk and loud is not a justifiable reason to punch him.
07-20-2012, 08:38 AM
Location: Twin Cities
5,831 posts, read
7,711,998 times
Reputation: 8867
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ManBearPig1
Doesn't matter what the victim was in the mood for. Only matters what was in the officer's mind at the time and whether that was reasonable. If the Officer, at the time he threw the punch, wasn't aware of the victim's prior conduct, said prior conduct probably isn't even relevant/admissible.
Not sure what the legal arguments are, but you don't know what was in the officer's mind at the time.
07-20-2012, 08:40 AM
Location: Twin Cities
5,831 posts, read
7,711,998 times
Reputation: 8867
Quote:
Originally Posted by
srsmn
Can I just point out that this is a *classic* Minneapolis response?
You have no idea how I would respond if he were a St. Paul fireman or a truck driver. If you're here regularly, you know that I often like to play devil's advocate. Especially when people may unsupported assumptions.
07-20-2012, 08:44 AM
Location: Twin Cities
5,831 posts, read
7,711,998 times
Reputation: 8867
Quote:
Originally Posted by
snofarmer
The guy was sitting down this can hardly be seen as a hostile stance.
Look at the video again. The cop bends over and talks to the guy while he is seated, then the guy gets up, then he gets punched. He is standing when the punch is thrown.
07-20-2012, 08:44 AM
455 posts, read
638,338 times
Reputation: 307
That's sad. In my view, likely (but I only have a low-medium quality video with no sound to go by) an unreasonable belief that self-defense was necessary at that point in time, but it is possible that it was reasonable because the dude did stand up to confront him. It's hard with the benefit of hindsight, but you have to believe that the cop didn't intend to put the guy in a coma (I think), so if the situation merited a response in self-defense, it is possible that the response was appropriate--despite tragic, unforeseen consequences. Personally, I'd probably give him some criminal punishment, but probably not anywhere close to 20 years.
07-20-2012, 08:55 AM
Location: Bel Air, California
23,766 posts, read
29,058,499 times
Reputation: 37337
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Glenfield
Fail. I did watch the video and believe you have reached a conclusion that is in no way supported by what's there. The video does not show the state of mind of the brothers at the time. In fact, you can't completely see what's going on because it's obscured by an umbrella. I have no idea why he ran away. I'm just saying that the whole thing may be more complicated than the lynch mob here wants to believe.
double fail. you maintain (your words):
"The struggle with his brother could be evidence that the drunk was in the mood for fighting, and imdicate that the cop was threatened" when the cop was not even there at that time to witness it. I suppose the victim doing the jumping jacks earlier in the parking lot also constituted a hostile act in your mind?
and the cop even coming over to confront the guy sitting down while he stood over him was in fact an act of aggression and clearly was meant to try and intimidate the victim. more like some "a-whole" had a bad day at the office and decided to take it out on someoone else. AWhole is clearly standing back with his fist cocked itching to deliver the sucker punch.
07-20-2012, 09:18 AM
Location: Northern MN
3,869 posts, read
15,171,657 times
Reputation: 3614
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Glenfield
Look at the video again. The cop bends over and talks to the guy while he is seated, then the guy gets up, then he gets punched. He is standing when the punch is thrown.
He is barely out of the chair still trying to stand and defend himself from the overly aggressive off duty cop.
He had yet to take a aggressive stance, the off duyt cop had already taken one by walking over and standing over him.
I wonder what the cop was saying?
I bet the cop was the aggressor.
You don't get to hit someone just because you don't like what they are saying or if they are drunk or trying to stand up.
If someone comes over to you and confronts you like the off duty cop did you too would take actions to protect yourself.
It makes no difference if he was a cop or not as I'm sure he didn't show the guy his badge and id first to identify him self as a cop, so as far as you know he is just some aggressive thug at this point.
The off duty cop has no place antagonizing him.
The cop is in the wrong.
07-20-2012, 10:16 AM
455 posts, read
638,338 times
Reputation: 307
Quote:
Originally Posted by
snofarmer
You don't get to hit someone just because you don't like what they are saying [or if they are drunk or trying to stand up].If someone [comes over] [stands up] to you and confronts you [like the off duty cop did] you too would take actions to protect yourself.
True. This is the cop's argument. The cop isn't an aggressor just by virtue of walking over to the guy and saying something to him.
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Residents speaking other language at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Foreign born (%)
Class of Workers - Employee of private company (%)
Class of Workers - Self-employed in own incorporated business (%)
Class of Workers - Private not-for-profit wage and salary workers (%)
Class of Workers - Local government workers (%)
Class of Workers - State government workers (%)
Class of Workers - Federal government workers (%)
Class of Workers - Self-employed workers in own not incorporated business and Unpaid family workers (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Utility gas (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Bottled, tank, or LP gas (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Electricity (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Fuel oil, kerosene, etc. (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Coal or coke (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Wood (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Solar energy (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Other fuel (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - No fuel used (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Utility gas (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Bottled, tank, or LP gas (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Electricity (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Fuel oil, kerosene, etc. (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Coal or coke (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Wood (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Solar energy (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Other fuel (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - No fuel used (%)
Armed forces status - In Armed Forces (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian - Veteran (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian - Nonveteran (%)
Fatal accidents locations in years 2005-2021
Fatal accidents locations in 2005
Fatal accidents locations in 2006
Fatal accidents locations in 2007
Fatal accidents locations in 2008
Fatal accidents locations in 2009
Fatal accidents locations in 2010
Fatal accidents locations in 2011
Fatal accidents locations in 2012
Fatal accidents locations in 2013
Fatal accidents locations in 2014
Fatal accidents locations in 2015
Fatal accidents locations in 2016
Fatal accidents locations in 2017
Fatal accidents locations in 2018
Fatal accidents locations in 2019
Fatal accidents locations in 2020
Fatal accidents locations in 2021
Alcohol use - People drinking some alcohol every month (%)
Alcohol use - People not drinking at all (%)
Alcohol use - Average days/month drinking alcohol
Alcohol use - Average drinks/week
Alcohol use - Average days/year people drink much
Audiometry - Average condition of hearing (%)
Audiometry - People that can hear a whisper from across a quiet room (%)
Audiometry - People that can hear normal voice from across a quiet room (%)
Audiometry - Ears ringing, roaring, buzzing (%)
Audiometry - Had a job exposure to loud noise (%)
Audiometry - Had off-work exposure to loud noise (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Has high blood pressure (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Checking blood pressure at home (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Frequently checking blood cholesterol (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Has high cholesterol level (%)
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on food at supermarket/grocery store
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on food at other stores
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on eating out
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on carryout/delivered foods
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on food at supermarket/grocery store (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on food at other stores (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on eating out (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on carryout/delivered foods (%)
Current Health Status - General health condition (%)
Current Health Status - Blood donors (%)
Current Health Status - Has blood ever tested for HIV virus (%)
Current Health Status - Left-handed people (%)
Dermatology - People using sunscreen (%)
Diabetes - Diabetics (%)
Diabetes - Had a blood test for high blood sugar (%)
Diabetes - People taking insulin (%)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Diet health (%)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Milk product consumption (# of products/month)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Meals not home prepared (#/week)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Meals from fast food or pizza place (#/week)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Ready-to-eat foods (#/month)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Frozen meals/pizza (#/month)
Drug Use - People that ever used marijuana or hashish (%)
Drug Use - Ever used hard drugs (%)
Drug Use - Ever used any form of cocaine (%)
Drug Use - Ever used heroin (%)
Drug Use - Ever used methamphetamine (%)
Health Insurance - People covered by health insurance (%)
Kidney Conditions-Urology - Avg. # of times urinating at night
Medical Conditions - People with asthma (%)
Medical Conditions - People with anemia (%)
Medical Conditions - People with psoriasis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with overweight (%)
Medical Conditions - Elderly people having difficulties in thinking or remembering (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever received blood transfusion (%)
Medical Conditions - People having trouble seeing even with glass/contacts (%)
Medical Conditions - People with arthritis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with gout (%)
Medical Conditions - People with congestive heart failure (%)
Medical Conditions - People with coronary heart disease (%)
Medical Conditions - People with angina pectoris (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had heart attack (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had stroke (%)
Medical Conditions - People with emphysema (%)
Medical Conditions - People with thyroid problem (%)
Medical Conditions - People with chronic bronchitis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with any liver condition (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had cancer or malignancy (%)
Mental Health - People who have little interest in doing things (%)
Mental Health - People feeling down, depressed, or hopeless (%)
Mental Health - People who have trouble sleeping or sleeping too much (%)
Mental Health - People feeling tired or having little energy (%)
Mental Health - People with poor appetite or overeating (%)
Mental Health - People feeling bad about themself (%)
Mental Health - People who have trouble concentrating on things (%)
Mental Health - People moving or speaking slowly or too fast (%)
Mental Health - People having thoughts they would be better off dead (%)
Oral Health - Average years since last visit a dentist
Oral Health - People embarrassed because of mouth (%)
Oral Health - People with gum disease (%)
Oral Health - General health of teeth and gums (%)
Oral Health - Average days a week using dental floss/device
Oral Health - Average days a week using mouthwash for dental problem
Oral Health - Average number of teeth
Pesticide Use - Households using pesticides to control insects (%)
Pesticide Use - Households using pesticides to kill weeds (%)
Physical Activity - People doing vigorous-intensity work activities (%)
Physical Activity - People doing moderate-intensity work activities (%)
Physical Activity - People walking or bicycling (%)
Physical Activity - People doing vigorous-intensity recreational activities (%)
Physical Activity - People doing moderate-intensity recreational activities (%)
Physical Activity - Average hours a day doing sedentary activities
Physical Activity - Average hours a day watching TV or videos
Physical Activity - Average hours a day using computer
Physical Functioning - People having limitations keeping them from working (%)
Physical Functioning - People limited in amount of work they can do (%)
Physical Functioning - People that need special equipment to walk (%)
Physical Functioning - People experiencing confusion/memory problems (%)
Physical Functioning - People requiring special healthcare equipment (%)
Prescription Medications - Average number of prescription medicines taking
Preventive Aspirin Use - Adults 40+ taking low-dose aspirin (%)
Reproductive Health - Vaginal deliveries (%)
Reproductive Health - Cesarean deliveries (%)
Reproductive Health - Deliveries resulted in a live birth (%)
Reproductive Health - Pregnancies resulted in a delivery (%)
Reproductive Health - Women breastfeeding newborns (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that had a hysterectomy (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that had both ovaries removed (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever taken birth control pills (%)
Reproductive Health - Women taking birth control pills (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever used Depo-Provera or injectables (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever used female hormones (%)
Sexual Behavior - People 18+ that ever had sex (vaginal, anal, or oral) (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had vaginal sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever performed oral sex on a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had anal sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had any sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had vaginal sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever performed oral sex on a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had anal sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had any kind of sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first had sex
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female vaginal sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first performed oral sex on a woman (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of woman performed oral sex on in lifetime (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male anal sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first performed oral sex on a man (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male oral sex partners in lifetime (18+)
Sexual Behavior - People using protection when performing oral sex (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of times people have vaginal or anal sex a year
Sexual Behavior - People having sex without condom (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male vaginal sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Circumcised males 18+ (%)
Sleep Disorders - Average hours sleeping at night
Sleep Disorders - People that has trouble sleeping (%)
Smoking-Cigarette Use - People smoking cigarettes (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ having problems with smell (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ having problems with taste (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had wisdom teeth removed (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had tonsils teeth removed (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had a loss of consciousness because of a head injury (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had a broken nose or other serious injury to face or skull (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had two or more sinus infections (%)
Weight - Average height (inches)
Weight - Average weight (pounds)
Weight - Average BMI
Weight - People that are obese (%)
Weight - People that ever were obese (%)
Weight - People trying to lose weight (%)
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