Relocating to St. Paul with 4 young children, looking for great schools! (Minneapolis: neighborhood, top schools)

[Mason3000]

Originally Posted by golfgal

even SW High, the #1?? school, again, ONLY the IB students, 18% of the students did not pass the IB test, and they only have 64% math and 84% reading proficiency---of the IB students only. The kids outside of the IB program have a 48% graduation rate....HOW is this the #1 school in the state?? Someone needs to teach the researchers at USNWR how to add.

Your numbers are way off here. State average for graduation is 89%. Mpls SW is @ 97%. Rosemount is @ only 93%. To say less than 50% of non-IB students even graduate at Mpls SW is totally inaccurate & a complete disconnect from reality. I know some years back there was a big scare where Mpls was ranked #44 out of 50 major cities for graduation rate (1995-2005). The methodology in that often-quoted study failed to account for open-enrollment & in fact penalized upwardly mobile students. i.e. A kid that started at Mpls Roosevelt, then transferred to Mpls SW for academics was counted as a drop-out/non-graduate because they didn't graduate from the school they began at. This study was conducted at the height of open-enrollment so maybe this is where your data comes from?

[Mason3000]

Originally Posted by golfgal

Again, those rankings are meaningless. If you look at the methodology, in schools with IB programs they are ONLY counting the kids in the IB program and only seniors that took IB/AP tests---and if you run the number, I've posted before links to this-SW and Central are measuring how "good" their schools are on less than 10% of the students where as schools like Edina, Minnetonka, etc. are being evaluated on over 50% of their students. If you look at the numbers, St. Paul Central, a top? school, shows that 81% of their IB kids took the IB tests, but only 38% of the kids that took the test passed. 56% of their kids are not proficient in math and 31% are not proficient in reading, yet they rank higher than say Minnetonka where they are looking at kids in the high school that took the AP tests, only 5% did not score a 3 or better on at least one test, 71% are proficient in math and 92% are proficient in reading. Please explain to me how this is even close to being worthwhile? Even SW High, the #1?? school, again, ONLY the IB students, 18% of the students did not pass the IB test, and they only have 64% math and 84% reading proficiency---of the IB students only. The kids outside of the IB program have a 48% graduation rate....HOW is this the #1 school in the state?? Someone needs to teach the researchers at USNWR how to add.

Furthermore, when comparing the testing data as listed on GreatSchools.org (where it appears you may have gotten some of your data?) you'll see that head-to-head comparison of the Demographics our kids share (i.e. white students) Mpls SW ranks ahead of Rosemount in every category except Science.

Grade 10
Reading: RM: 91% SW: 95%

Grade 11
Math: RM 55% SW: 68%

Science: RM 80% SW: 50%

MCA-II GRAD
Grade 9: RM 98% SW: 99%

10 RM 93% SW 96%

11 RM 72% SW 79%

Rosemount Senior High School Test Scores - Rosemount, Minnesota - MN

Southwest Senior High School Test Scores - Minneapolis, Minnesota - MN

[uptown_urbanist]

Golfgal's numbers are consistently wrong (not just a little wrong or creatively interpreted, but flat-out incorrect) -- which has been pointed out many, many times -- but it's a moot point because the OP isn't considering living in SW Minneapolis! Although if she DOES want excellent schools and a family-friendly neighborhood the neighborhoods of SW would definitely be a good fit. I think she can find what she wants in St. Paul, however, and skip the commute.

[golfgal]

Originally Posted by uptown_urbanist

Golfgal's numbers are consistently wrong (not just a little wrong or creatively interpreted, but flat-out incorrect) -- which has been pointed out many, many times -- but it's a moot point because the OP isn't considering living in SW Minneapolis! Although if she DOES want excellent schools and a family-friendly neighborhood the neighborhoods of SW would definitely be a good fit. I think she can find what she wants in St. Paul, however, and skip the commute.

My numbers are directly from the USNWR rankings Mason3000 posted so again, I guess those numbers are just wrong?? Feel free to look at them yourself as well as read the methodology for the rankings. The numbers are what are used for those ranking and if they are wrong, not my fault

As for the "greatschools"--those numbers are all self reported. Not very accurate at all. If you want real numbers look at the department of education, which lists everything I've posted here, based on the findings from the State and 4 YEAR graduation rates, not just senior year graduation rates, meaning the kids that make it to senior year and graduate at the end of senior year.

According to Uptown they are wrong though, I guess she does her own research.

[Mason3000]

Id like to see a link if you have one showing less than 50% of regular students @ Mpls SW are graduating. Everything I find shows it's 97%, but as low as 94% a few years back, well above state average.

[golfgal]

Originally Posted by Mason3000

Id like to see a link if you have one showing less than 50% of regular students @ Mpls SW are graduating. Everything I find shows it's 97%, but as low as 94% a few years back, well above state average.

Data for Parents and Educators

79% overall graduation rate. Take out the top 20% that are in the IB program, do the math. The 90+ % rate is all over the Minneapolis city website but again, that is the number of kids that start senior year in high school and graduate. The Department of Ed requires a 4 year graduation rate, which means kids that graduate within 4 years of starting 9th grade. That is a HUGE difference in reporting standards. Districtwide, Minneapolis has a 46% four year graduation rate. I've posted this link many times, people choose to ignore it however. St. Paul, districtwide has a 64% graduation rate...

[Mason3000]

Originally Posted by golfgal

Again, those rankings are meaningless. If you look at the methodology, in schools with IB programs they are ONLY counting the kids in the IB program and only seniors that took IB/AP tests---and if you run the number, I've posted before links to this-SW and Central are measuring how "good" their schools are on less than 10% of the students where as schools like Edina, Minnetonka, etc. are being evaluated on over 50% of their students. If you look at the numbers, St. Paul Central, a top? school, shows that 81% of their IB kids took the IB tests, but only 38% of the kids that took the test passed. 56% of their kids are not proficient in math and 31% are not proficient in reading, yet they rank higher than say Minnetonka where they are looking at kids in the high school that took the AP tests, only 5% did not score a 3 or better on at least one test, 71% are proficient in math and 92% are proficient in reading. Please explain to me how this is even close to being worthwhile? Even SW High, the #1?? school, again, ONLY the IB students, 18% of the students did not pass the IB test, and they only have 64% math and 84% reading proficiency---of the IB students only. The kids outside of the IB program have a 48% graduation rate....HOW is this the #1 school in the state?? Someone needs to teach the researchers at USNWR how to add.

Where are you getting this 10% figure because the link says 70+% of SW students are in the IB program?

[golfgal]

Originally Posted by Mason3000

Where are you getting this 10% figure because the link says 70+% of SW students are in the IB program?

No it does not. It says that 70% if the kids in the IB program take at least on IB test. If you do your research on the SW IB page as well as numerous stories posted in the Trib, all of which have been linked here at one point in time you will see that very few kids are in the IB program. Some kids take and IB class here and there but they are not in the IB program full time---the USNWR only tracks those IN the IB program, which is fewer than 20% of the students at SW. There was a very long post about this with links, stats and actual numbers, something like 45 kids total that you are free to search but I am not willing to go through the work, again, to satisfy you.

[stolafs69]

Originally Posted by Mason3000

Why are Mpls & St Paul so far down on your list? Have you ever been to the neighborhoods in the Mpls SW district? Linden Hills, Kenwood, Cedar-Isles-Dean, Uptown, Lynnhurst, 50th/France, Lowry Hill? Mpls South district? W. River Parkway, Seward, Howe, Longfellow, Dowling areas near the river? St Paul Central District (Where my kids are on track to attend) have the Merriam Park (i.e. U of St Thomas area, near the river), Mac-Groveland (Macallister area), Murray Field/Langford Park (St Anthony Park area), Summit U (Summit/Grand Aves) & East River Pkwy neighborhoods. Lot's of well-to-do people, solid students, advanced academics, languages, athletics, arts, etc. What gives, aren't these areas every bit as nice as the suburbs or nicer?

Its not a matter of me not liking mpls or st. paul or its neighborhoods. I just don't like when misleading statistics are posted to people not familiar with the area. I am not saying you intentially tried to mislead anyone. But as GolfGal has clearly pointed out, many of these statisitcs published are pure crap. How can you evaluate High schools based soley on kids in the IB program? How can you publish a graduation rate that only includes the rate for high schools seniors and ignores the the kids who have already dropped out? I know Mpls and St. Paul are doing what the can to try and keep kids in the district to preserve funding, put publishing misleading graduation stats is horrible. As for for the US News rankings, they only use objectve test scores as a factor in their rankings. The rest of their rankings are based on crap such as IP and AP test performace (which only apply to a small percentage of students) and something called "disadvantaged student performace," which we all know is a way to prop up inner city schools and sell more magazines in those large markets.

[Mason3000]

Originally Posted by golfgal

Data for Parents and Educators

79% overall graduation rate. Take out the top 20% that are in the IB program, do the math. The 90+ % rate is all over the Minneapolis city website but again, that is the number of kids that start senior year in high school and graduate. The Department of Ed requires a 4 year graduation rate, which means kids that graduate within 4 years of starting 9th grade. That is a HUGE difference in reporting standards. Districtwide, Minneapolis has a 46% four year graduation rate. I've posted this link many times, people choose to ignore it however. St. Paul, districtwide has a 64% graduation rate...

It says here that Mpls SW has 73% of students in the IB program to only 39% at Rosemount? Where are you getting figures like 10% & 20%?

Southwest High School in MINNEAPOLIS, MN | Best High Schools | US News

Rosemount Senior High in ROSEMOUNT, MN | Best High Schools | US News