Ok, enough is enough!!! (Dayton, Viking: tax, live, costs)

[Glenfield]

Originally Posted by Globe199

To those of you who suddenly and hypocritically care about how much tax poor people pay:

Let's offset the proposed tobacco tax increase with a greater income tax increase on high earners. Who's with me?

**crickets**

I don't think any tax increase in necessary, but if it were, I would support an increase in tax that does not disproportionately fall on the poor. In the real world, there are more choices than the two choices you present. And there is always the option of (perish the thought!) cutting spending. Are you with me or can we play your trite little cricket game again?

[demtion35]

CDC - Real Stories - Tips From Former Smokers - Smoking & Tobacco Use

[Glenfield]

Here's our guy!
http://legalinsurrection.com/wp-cont...Need-vodka.jpg

[MN-Born-n-Raised]

Originally Posted by Glenfield

I don't think any tax increase in necessary, but if it were, I would support an increase in tax that does not disproportionately fall on the poor. In the real world, there are more choices than the two choices you present. And there is always the option of (perish the thought!) cutting spending. Are you with me or can we play your trite little cricket game again?

I know way too many poor people who are-where-they-are for a reason. They don't have it hard at all. They get MN Care, food stamps, county heating assistance, they visit food shelves to stock up on odds-and-ends, free cell phone service, free college for their family (FAFSA), and a whole host of other benefits.

So they use the services and they don't pay squat. Yea... I'm really concerned about "taxes falling disproportionately on the poor". As I said, they take a lot from society but don't contribute. I know WAY too many people that work the system. It use to be shameful but now it is a game to coast through life. I can list off 30 people off the top of my head. It's not rare at all.

Originally Posted by Glenfield

And there is always the option of (perish the thought!) cutting spending. Are you with me or can we play your trite little cricket game again?

We should cut spending for the poor and subsidizing the rich (corporate welfare).

[uptown_urbanist]

Someone questioned whether or not high cigarette prices deterred new teenage smokers and said that it hadn't worked in other states; now granted, I haven't fact-checked this article, but according to this USA Today piece the places with the highest taxes do indeed have the lowest teenage smoking rates.

Raise cigarette prices to snuff teen smoking: Our view

[tijlover]

But does this also account for all those that roll their own, like myself? My guess, they're not included in the statistics!

I can get a lot of mileage out of a one pound bag of smooth cigar tobacco!

[xandrex]

Originally Posted by tijlover

But does this also account for all those that roll their own, like myself? My guess, they're not included in the statistics!

I can get a lot of mileage out of a one pound bag of smooth cigar tobacco!

I know some people who roll, but most are far too lazy. Perhaps if our state had higher tobacco taxes, I'd see more of it. I know that was the case when I studied abroad in England. At about $12/pack (and the packs had fewer cigarettes), many students would roll their own, even while they were in class.

[Mason3000]

What we need are more rich, white people to shout down from our ivory towers & tell these peasants how better to live their lives. We've got all the answers & they don't. It may not always be pleasant to hear, but it's for their own good, like with children. After all, if we the intellectual elite can not force our values on these ignorant masses, then what are our impressive degrees & privileged backgrounds worth?

[uptown_urbanist]

Adults are old enough that they can take full responsibility of their own choices, and if they want to carve out a chunk of their income to pay for smokes, well, that's certainly their right. I think the more elitist point of view is to argue that cigarette taxes need to be kept low just because more poor people smoke. Low-income people are just as capable as middle- or wealthy people of making decisions about the way they allocate their budgets, and just as capable of attempting to quit if they decide that they are no longer willing to spend their take-home pay on tobacco. We all have choices when it comes to smoking, including those on all rungs of the economic ladder.

[xandrex]

Originally Posted by uptown_urbanist

Adults are old enough that they can take full responsibility of their own choices, and if they want to carve out a chunk of their income to pay for smokes, well, that's certainly their right. I think the more elitist point of view is to argue that cigarette taxes need to be kept low just because more poor people smoke. Low-income people are just as capable as middle- or wealthy people of making decisions about the way they allocate their budgets, and just as capable of attempting to quit if they decide that they are no longer willing to spend their take-home pay on tobacco. We all have choices when it comes to smoking, including those on all rungs of the economic ladder.

This is an excellent point. It is an elitist view to claim that the poor need cheaper smokes simply because they are poor, as if they are any less able to quit than a person of any other socio-economic status.

Sometimes the poor don't have the resources to quit, but they certainly can muster the same amount of will. I would be happy to guide tobacco taxes toward cessation programs (as at least a portion of them already do) to support people. I don't support cheap smokes under the guise of "the poor need them at the end of a hard day" (this sounds awfully like Brave New World's soma distribution) or that they're expensive (by the cigarette, they're incredibly cheap).