Are there any conservatives in the TC's at all? (Grant: school, law)
Minneapolis - St. PaulTwin Cities
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It may be because a straight violent ex felon can marry upon release from prison and many people like yourself have no problem with that. However, a law abiding gay person contributing to society, working, paying taxes and serving on juries can't marry in 38 states and you are offended that they can marry in the other twelve and DC.
God considers violent felons worse people than law abiding gay people. They should not have more rights.
You are entitled to your view and we agree to disagree.
However, I also like to point out the hypocrisy! It cuts both ways, sir.
I'm sorry to disagree with you but the "hypocrisy" you are pointing out comes completely from your own mistaken assumptions and opinions.
How do you know what I do and don't have a problem with? How do you know what offends me?
Also, where do you get your information that "God considers violent felons worse people than law abiding gay people." ??? Or any other person for that matter? What is your evidence for this statement that you present as fact? Biblically, God considers ANY and ALL sin worthy enough to separate us from Him. Whether it's murder, homosexuality, swearing, stealing a piece of gum, etc., it's all sin to God and He despises it. One sin is enough to separate us from Him because He is Just and Holy. That's whey every one of us needs Jesus as our Savior. He paid the price we couldn't in order to reconcile us back to God and satisfy His perfect justice. As Glenfield pointed out, there are no varying degrees of sin with God. There are some He hates more than others and some He calls abominations, but all sin is detestable and treated equally with God.
As for the straight, violent ex felon being able to marry, why shouldn't they? They paid their dues to society when their sentence was completed. And they're not violating God's laws by getting married. Homosexual marriage does violate God's laws. So, it's not about being a "good" or "bad" person. It's about what's right in God's eyes.
I find it interesting that people, in trying to defend their side of the pro-gay marriage stance, always seem to bring up examples like you did -- The "bad" straight person vs the "good" gay person. Why are the homosexuals in their examples always perfect and kind and the straight people are always dodgy? My point is that people's examples are always taken to the extreme - as if that enhances and strengthens their point.
The biblical Christian stance on homosexuality is clearly stated: God is against it and calls it sin. Since Christians accept God as their Father and Creator, then naturally we, too, call whatever He calls sin to be sin. (It's not out of hate, it's out of obedience.) To say ANY differently WOULD BE hypocrisy on our part.
QUESTION FOR LIBERALS: So, where is the liberal tolerance and acceptance for Christianity and Christians if all people, lifestyles and beliefs are supposed to be "equal" and "our truth" and "politically correct." ??? It's considered a "hate crime" to be against homosexuality or someone else's belief system. Why does that not apply towards Christians as well?
And that fabulous ambiguity is what has led to, for example, fights over guns, fights over the role and power of religion, fights over privacy that will never end. As for the " longest standing government style in the world," you might notice that it's been breaking down for a while. This country is extremely divided for numerous reasons.
Then people should stop trying to subvert what the Founders dictated to keep this Country the Greatest on Gods Green Earth...
... And they're not violating God's laws by getting married. Homosexual marriage does violate God's laws. So, it's not about being a "good" or "bad" person. It's about what's right in God's eyes....
Frankly I don't give a rat's behind about what you think about "God's Laws." Marriage is a civil institution in this country - not a religious one.
I'm sorry to disagree with you but the "hypocrisy" you are pointing out comes completely from your own mistaken assumptions and opinions.
How do you know what I do and don't have a problem with? How do you know what offends me?
Also, where do you get your information that "God considers violent felons worse people than law abiding gay people." ??? Or any other person for that matter? What is your evidence for this statement that you present as fact? Biblically, God considers ANY and ALL sin worthy enough to separate us from Him. Whether it's murder, homosexuality, swearing, stealing a piece of gum, etc., it's all sin to God and He despises it. One sin is enough to separate us from Him because He is Just and Holy. That's whey every one of us needs Jesus as our Savior. He paid the price we couldn't in order to reconcile us back to God and satisfy His perfect justice. As Glenfield pointed out, there are no varying degrees of sin with God. There are some He hates more than others and some He calls abominations, but all sin is detestable and treated equally with God.
As for the straight, violent ex felon being able to marry, why shouldn't they? They paid their dues to society when their sentence was completed. And they're not violating God's laws by getting married. Homosexual marriage does violate God's laws. So, it's not about being a "good" or "bad" person. It's about what's right in God's eyes.
I find it interesting that people, in trying to defend their side of the pro-gay marriage stance, always seem to bring up examples like you did -- The "bad" straight person vs the "good" gay person. Why are the homosexuals in their examples always perfect and kind and the straight people are always dodgy? My point is that people's examples are always taken to the extreme - as if that enhances and strengthens their point.
The biblical Christian stance on homosexuality is clearly stated: God is against it and calls it sin. Since Christians accept God as their Father and Creator, then naturally we, too, call whatever He calls sin to be sin. (It's not out of hate, it's out of obedience.) To say ANY differently WOULD BE hypocrisy on our part.
QUESTION FOR LIBERALS: So, where is the liberal tolerance and acceptance for Christianity and Christians if all people, lifestyles and beliefs are supposed to be "equal" and "our truth" and "politically correct." ??? It's considered a "hate crime" to be against homosexuality or someone else's belief system. Why does that not apply towards Christians as well?
Why do you demand tolerance while not giving it yourself? That is like an petulant little child. I judge people on the content of their character. Your moral values are bigoted against gays and non-Christians, yet you demand tolerance in your little one way street. You lack the logical capacity to realize God in Christianity was a creation of kings to rule a population of illiterate peasants yet you believe it in 2013.
[SIZE=2]Exodus 35:2[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]"On six days work may be done, but the seventh day shall be sacred to you as the sabbath of complete rest to the LORD. Anyone who does work on that day shall be put to death."
So you advocate the death penalty for anyone who works on Sundays?
[/SIZE]
Frankly I don't give a rat's behind about what you think about "God's Laws." Marriage is a civil institution in this country - not a religious one.
Religion is irrelevant to the legal debate.
I'll bet that hurt for you to not really let loose, didn't it? It's evident. You're as angry and upset as you are because I'm right and you don't have an argument against it. So, out come the junior high darts.
Point 1: God created marriage. The Bible begins and ends with a wedding (Genesis 2:20-25 and Revelation 19:9). And, in the middle (Matthew 19:4-6) we have Jesus telling us, "And He answered and said to them, “Have you not read that He who made them at the beginning ‘made them male and female,’ and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? So then, they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate.”
So, if God created marriage, then marriage is what HE says it is. Not any person. And not liking this fact doesn't change it. Not even if every human being that ever lived on the planet agreed with you. No man (or law) can separate what God has joined together - one man, one woman.
Point 2: Religion is not irrelevant to the legal debate. If it were irrelevant, the Constitution would not have made Freedom of Religion a legal act. You just don't want it to be relevant. Worse yet, you don't want "religious" people to have a voice in anything. That's the liberal intolerance (i.e., hypocrisy) I spoke about in my earlier post. If you don't like it or agree with it, it keep quiet and stop existing so you and those you like can make all the laws that suit you.
Them's the facts. I hope you and you're rat's behind are very happy together. Who knows? Maybe soon the liberals will make it legal for the two of you to wed.
P.S. This is the type of confrontation that conservatives can expect to receive from the (many) outspoken liberals in the Twin Cities. If you say something they don't like, the villagers will storm the castle with their torches burning, ready to destroy.
Last edited by plain and simple; 08-10-2013 at 09:09 PM..
Religion should have no place in politics. The US was intended to have a secular government from its' founding. Religion is fine for the personal sphere but people shouldn't try to use the power of the state to foist their theology on society at large.
Religion should have no place in politics. The US was intended to have a secular government from its' founding. Religion is fine for the personal sphere but people shouldn't try to use the power of the state to foist their theology on society at large.
Regardless of your preference, religion has ALWAYS played a large role in the political sphere, and it always will. Spirituality is and has been a prevalent force in the lives of a good percentage of the population - in all societies going back to the beginning of time - and it is not just going to vanish because a fledgling liberal faction thinks it shouldn't exist. To claim otherwise is either wishful thinking, utter ignorance, or both. People have beliefs and are allowed to voice those beliefs in matters that affect their lives, which historically and inevitably invokes politics. You're not going to just clap your hands twice and see beliefs people have held their entire lives vaporized because they don't serve your purpose or agenda. Maybe it would be easier for you to digest if you realized that religion and spirituality exist and are incorporated in large part due to the human inability to effectively govern to begin with........and by govern, I am implying a lot more than just the base politics we bat back and forth every day, I am also referring to self discipline and moral upkeep, which are cornerstones of stability in association with human interaction.
Last edited by Tyryztoll; 08-11-2013 at 07:15 AM..
I'm sorry to disagree with you but the "hypocrisy" you are pointing out comes completely from your own mistaken assumptions and opinions.
How do you know what I do and don't have a problem with? How do you know what offends me?
Also, where do you get your information that "God considers violent felons worse people than law abiding gay people." ??? Or any other person for that matter? What is your evidence for this statement that you present as fact? Biblically, God considers ANY and ALL sin worthy enough to separate us from Him. Whether it's murder, homosexuality, swearing, stealing a piece of gum, etc., it's all sin to God and He despises it. One sin is enough to separate us from Him because He is Just and Holy. That's whey every one of us needs Jesus as our Savior. He paid the price we couldn't in order to reconcile us back to God and satisfy His perfect justice. As Glenfield pointed out, there are no varying degrees of sin with God. There are some He hates more than others and some He calls abominations, but all sin is detestable and treated equally with God.
As for the straight, violent ex felon being able to marry, why shouldn't they? They paid their dues to society when their sentence was completed. And they're not violating God's laws by getting married. Homosexual marriage does violate God's laws. So, it's not about being a "good" or "bad" person. It's about what's right in God's eyes.
I find it interesting that people, in trying to defend their side of the pro-gay marriage stance, always seem to bring up examples like you did -- The "bad" straight person vs the "good" gay person. Why are the homosexuals in their examples always perfect and kind and the straight people are always dodgy? My point is that people's examples are always taken to the extreme - as if that enhances and strengthens their point.
The biblical Christian stance on homosexuality is clearly stated: God is against it and calls it sin. Since Christians accept God as their Father and Creator, then naturally we, too, call whatever He calls sin to be sin. (It's not out of hate, it's out of obedience.) To say ANY differently WOULD BE hypocrisy on our part.
QUESTION FOR LIBERALS: So, where is the liberal tolerance and acceptance for Christianity and Christians if all people, lifestyles and beliefs are supposed to be "equal" and "our truth" and "politically correct." ??? It's considered a "hate crime" to be against homosexuality or someone else's belief system. Why does that not apply towards Christians as well?
I find it interesting (but not surprising) a a Christain that disagrees with other Christians (like yourself), the example was not able to provide perspective for you (felon and law abiding gay). As to your "served their sentence for society" try telling that to the family of a murder victim that will never be brought back to life. Yet you do not hesitate to want to deny a gay person that has followed all the rules and contributed to society their rights. You just cavalierly dismiss it. BTW, we are not a theocracy and ALL Americans need to have the same rights under our Constitution. "We the people" includes everyone, not just the handpicked group we feel comfortable with whether they be straight or in our own ethnic group, etc.
I do not believe you are a hater, but your view is intolerant.
Tolerance: people who believe both straight and gay people should be able to marry.
Intolerance: people who believe only people of one orientation should be allowed to marry.
Those last two sentences settle it in a nutshell. You can hide behind your "moral values" as an excuse for this intolerance if you want, but many of us supporting marriage for all have equally strong values. There is no moral superiority in being intolerant. You can believe that if you wish and then be guilty of the sin of pride (and follow Swaggart, Bakker and your other "heroes" down that road).
BTW, God is opposed to all sin, but there are the Ten Commandments which take priority. The one dealing with sexual relations is opposed to the sins of both straght and gay people 9as adultery can be committed by either. There is also a separate commandment "Thou shalt not kill".
I am sorry to disappoint you. Being gay and killing are not equivalent in God's eyes. There is no commandment in the Bible against being a gay person. There is against killing and violence. Nice try.
Therefore it is obvious to anyone reading carefully that God will despise a killer's actions far more than a gay law abiding person's actions. I think it is in fact, virtually a no brainer.
This is not the 50's and many of us are sorry about your frustrations in convincing more people to agree your views rather than taking some time to re-examine yours and maybe admit to a flaw or being mistaken once in awhile. There are people that are not Christians that are good people, too (newsflash) and intolerance will also turn off people that one could become good friends or acquaintances with later in life.
I have friends that go to church every Sunday and some friends that have not been in a church (except the occasional wedding) for most of their adult lives.
I'll bet that hurt for you to not really let loose, didn't it? It's evident. You're as angry and upset as you are because I'm right and you don't have an argument against it. So, out come the junior high darts.
Point 1: God created marriage. The Bible begins and ends with a wedding (Genesis 2:20-25 and Revelation 19:9). And, in the middle (Matthew 19:4-6) we have Jesus telling us, "And He answered and said to them, “Have you not read that He who made them at the beginning ‘made them male and female,’ and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? So then, they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate.”
So, if God created marriage, then marriage is what HE says it is. Not any person. And not liking this fact doesn't change it. Not even if every human being that ever lived on the planet agreed with you. No man (or law) can separate what God has joined together - one man, one woman.
Point 2: Religion is not irrelevant to the legal debate. If it were irrelevant, the Constitution would not have made Freedom of Religion a legal act. You just don't want it to be relevant. Worse yet, you don't want "religious" people to have a voice in anything. That's the liberal intolerance (i.e., hypocrisy) I spoke about in my earlier post. If you don't like it or agree with it, it keep quiet and stop existing so you and those you like can make all the laws that suit you.
Them's the facts. I hope you and you're rat's behind are very happy together. Who knows? Maybe soon the liberals will make it legal for the two of you to wed.
P.S. This is the type of confrontation that conservatives can expect to receive from the (many) outspoken liberals in the Twin Cities. If you say something they don't like, the villagers will storm the castle with their torches burning, ready to destroy.
No, I am not in the TC, but you have a problem with "the villagers" using their First Amendment rights to respond. There is an old saying "If you can't take it don't dish it out".
When you make judgemental statements it is to be regarded as "truth" and how dare anyone else disgree. When those disagreeing are equally assertive for their viewpoint, you seem to cry foul. Wrong...this is how the First Amendment was designed to work in fact.
Plain and simple, I am grateful as an American that so many people can proclaim their views on this and other topics. In fact, thank you for sharing yours even though I and others may disagree. The only thing we ask is that a person making confrontational statements should not complain about confrontation from others.
It great that here in the USA ALL of us posting views here will not be hearing a knock on our doors and get hauled away to a prison. We may be disappointed that we cannot convince others, but I'll settle for just the right to share viewpoints.
It is too bad you can't look at some of the footage (Mpls City Hall and elsewhere) of these same sex couples getting married and how joyful they are and realize this is nothing harmful to your life instead of a reaction like the old Pharisees back in Jesus' time reacted.
I believe Jesus would be far more critical of you than many of us. Read your New Testament more carefully. Jesus' criticized the Pharisees who saw sin around them but never were critical toward themselves and never thought they could be wrong about anything being wrapped up in their self righteousness, but WAY short on any love and compassion.
A gay person (whether married or unmarried) may be the next person that: educates your child, hires you for a job, does a life saving operation on you or a family member. Think of that, too.
I do not believe you are a hater, but your view is intolerant.
Tolerance: people who believe both straight and gay people should be able to marry.
Intolerance: people who believe only people of one orientation should be allowed to marry.
This is not the 50's .
The good Christian is not inclined to abide man's definition of tolerance in correlation with this subject. The good Christian adheres to the Word of God, which is undeniably clear on the subject of homosexuality.
There are no references to gay marriage in the Bible because scripture denounces homosexuality, and therefore does not lend itself to anything that would grow out of this sin.
You're right when you say this isn't the 50's. It's 2013, and although the Word of God hasn't changed, the world certainly has. That much is certainly evident.
If you really are a Christian as you claim, I would be more concerned with God's tolerance in correlation with this sin you constantly promote than I would about handing out tolerance grades to people you don't even know.
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