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I would agree with this completely. MN is unique in that plenty of people keep their same circles of friends since their youth and it's a full-time effort to try and integrate into many of those said circles. This is a vicious cycle which even extends into the dating scene here. Having lived in other parts of the US (NY, Cali, DC), and having visited just about everywhere else, I have yet to encounter any place where it's so difficult to meet new people.
Your observation was spot on, and I was just having this exact same conversation yesterday with a good friend of mine who is finishing up his MBA at Carlson here this year. He's been looking at options on the west coast for opportunities.
Going back to my earlier comment about the mentality extending into the dating scene, as he put it, "Being single in Minnesota is a tragedy.", referring to the difficulties it is to find women who a) aren't married here, or b) haven't been through the grinder. Item A is more of an issue, as it seems that most of the women around here get married in their early 20s.
Even in my own observations, I work downtown and would say that the majority of the women that I encounter are married, so I can't disagree with him. He's 28, works a corporate job (~140k/year or so) and I told him to wait for another few years and the cute ladies will all be divorced ;-)
I haven't seen anywhere else that is literally this bad for the friendships and relationship scene. That's not to say there aren't plenty of great things about MN, as I personally think the economy, food, arts scene, and the fact that you can drive everywhere in Hennepin County without major traffic headaches makes this a great place to live and to raise a family. For the young, single professionals though, there's nothing great about this place.
As to your last sentence, I guess we need to tell all those people out and about on Hennepin/First Ave's on weekends and in Uptown and Northeast, too, that they are just wasting their time. LOL! Again IMO this is way exaggerated for the Twin Cities area. Maybe true in some small towns around the state.
When I think of a cloistered/circle of family and friends sort of place, Utah comes to mind and yes, including the SLC region. I have read closer to majority agreement on this topic for SLC than for the TC. There you even have some religious intolerance.
Try living there for awhile and then come back to the TC and I'll bet you willl change your view!
As to your last sentence, I guess we need to tell all those people out and about on Hennepin/First Ave's on weekends and in Uptown and Northeast, too, that they are just wasting their time. LOL! Again IMO this is way exaggerated for the Twin Cities area. Maybe true in some small towns around the state.
When I think of a cloistered/circle of family and friends sort of place, Utah comes to mind and yes, including the SLC region. I have read closer to majority agreement on this topic for SLC than for the TC. There you even have some religious intolerance.
Try living there for awhile and then come back to the TC and I'll bet you willl change your view!
Haha, I bet Utah would change my opinion. I'm sure there are plenty of places that aren't nearly as great as Minnesota, but the Single's scene here leaves much to be desired. Since you mentioned uptown; I lived rather close to there and have spent many-a-weekend checking out the venues (Trygs, Bar Louie, Stellas, Figaro (before it closed), Sushi Tango, Bar Abeline, Chino's, etc.) . What I've personally experienced is that an overwhelming majority of people that are out and about are married or otherwise out with their significant other. I used places like NYC and parts of Cali only as a reference because out there it seemed like the majority of people who were out and about did not have any rings on and were generally more excited to strike up conversations with people whom they didn't know. I understand alcohol changes things and loosens people up, but there's still something different in MN compared to the other locales.
I'm really passionate about this issue and it sounds like you are too, so I'd like to know: In the places that you go out in Uptown or NE, what have your experiences been? Would you argue that it's been overwhelmingly positive, in that you're seeing mainly single people out and about who are ready to socialize?
Haha, I bet Utah would change my opinion. I'm sure there are plenty of places that aren't nearly as great as Minnesota, but the Single's scene here leaves much to be desired. Since you mentioned uptown; I lived rather close to there and have spent many-a-weekend checking out the venues (Trygs, Bar Louie, Stellas, Figaro (before it closed), Sushi Tango, Bar Abeline, Chino's, etc.) . What I've personally experienced is that an overwhelming majority of people that are out and about are married or otherwise out with their significant other. I used places like NYC and parts of Cali only as a reference because out there it seemed like the majority of people who were out and about did not have any rings on and were generally more excited to strike up conversations with people whom they didn't know. I understand alcohol changes things and loosens people up, but there's still something different in MN compared to the other locales.
I'm really passionate about this issue and it sounds like you are too, so I'd like to know: In the places that you go out in Uptown or NE, what have your experiences been? Would you argue that it's been overwhelmingly positive, in that you're seeing mainly single people out and about who are ready to socialize?
I don't live there, so the info I get is second hand from some friends and a few relatives there. I have also seen several posts here praising the nightlife and singles scene for those three areas, so I am surprised to hear that. One poster said there were thousands of people on Hennepin on a Saturday night when he had friends from Seattle visit and they simply could not believe it!
Almost any urban area in the USA will fall short of NYC in that department with its large population, though. I am not ultra passionate. Maybe the North Loop/downtown venues and the Northeast has more singles these days than Uptown. Others should chime in. I spent significant time in Uptown on my visit in 1987 and there seemed to be a lot of singles. We spent a lot of time in Williams Peanut Bar and there seemed to be a good number of singles there. That was a while ago I realize.
We could always split the difference and say it ranks halfway between Utah and NYC. (As to where I live, Salinas' singles scene is pathetic compared to Minneapolis...not even close. However, the Monterey Peninsula is nearby with additional options).
Do you think comparing it to NYC maybe created unrealistic expectations? Just asking. People that experience the scene should also chime in, please.
To the OP: Don't put too much weight on moving back because of family and friend relationships. Remember, those things can and will change, too. Some friends are forever, but not all. I would suggest, that if you move back, that you do so because the things you want are overwhelmingly HERE.
PS I have moved away from the Twin Cities and surrounding areas 4 times. I am probably back for good now. The majority of things I want in life are here. Many friends are also here, but that's not why I moved back. You have got to give yourself TIME to make friends anywhere. Family? Well, my family is here but they aren't people I like to hang out with. It took moving away and back to realize that.
I moved away to Colorado, then back, then Milwaukee, then back, then Colorado, then back, then Anchorage, then back all in about 5 years. (First Colorado move and Milwaukee were college) Leaving here made me miss it here, and it made me realize what you have here. I learned that every place is the same to me. Made friends right away in all the places, friends I still have 10 years later. If you think the people not leaving town is bad here, Anchorage is much worse. All my current friends I've met since I moved back, I don't hangout with any childhood/high school friends other then one now. But I see it all over Facebook of friends/groups in high school still hanging out now. I've relied on my hockey playing to make all my current friends, so I'm a little lucky on that. The big reason I always came back was family. Our direct family isn't massive (parents both came here from Los Angeles 38 years ago) so we're the only family in MN. I'd love to live in the redwood forests or forests of the Sierras in northern CA or Colorado again, but I don't want to leave my parents and brothers again or my wife's mom (Current goal is live in CA for winters only)
Haha, I bet Utah would change my opinion. I'm sure there are plenty of places that aren't nearly as great as Minnesota, but the Single's scene here leaves much to be desired. Since you mentioned uptown; I lived rather close to there and have spent many-a-weekend checking out the venues (Trygs, Bar Louie, Stellas, Figaro (before it closed), Sushi Tango, Bar Abeline, Chino's, etc.) . What I've personally experienced is that an overwhelming majority of people that are out and about are married or otherwise out with their significant other. I used places like NYC and parts of Cali only as a reference because out there it seemed like the majority of people who were out and about did not have any rings on and were generally more excited to strike up conversations with people whom they didn't know. I understand alcohol changes things and loosens people up, but there's still something different in MN compared to the other locales.
I'm really passionate about this issue and it sounds like you are too, so I'd like to know: In the places that you go out in Uptown or NE, what have your experiences been? Would you argue that it's been overwhelmingly positive, in that you're seeing mainly single people out and about who are ready to socialize?
BTW, the OP has a girlfriend, so going out to establishments where there are other couples they can meet might be more advantageous to their particular situation anyways.
OP isn't on the dating scene, but on that count, I think the state is about at the national average. I know very few people who got married in their early 20s; mid to late 20s was the norm among my friends, which is about on par with the other cities I've lived in. I got married young and felt very much like an oddity.
The one big difference I notice here versus the other big cities I've lived in is that here young people -- as in people just a few years out of college -- buy houses. If the OP wants home ownership, that's absolutely a possibility here, while it's a much bigger stretch in the Bay Area. You can buy a nice house in a safe neighborhood with a good school here for under $200k -- try that in SF. And salaries here are lower, but they aren't necessarily THAT much lower. I think it is unusual here to be in my 30s with a kid and not own a house, while in California (at least the big cities) that's pretty normal.
MN is not unique though...that is just it. The same thing happens all over the country, and in many areas it's far worse than anything you will find in MN. Point being, it is a flaw in the person moving into the area...not that there is something wrong with them but they do have to make an effort to meet people--sometimes it's just more of an effort depending on where you work, live, etc. If you are 23 years old and take a job in a company where everyone else is 50 or over, nope, you aren't really going to make a lot of friends at work so you need to seek out other venues for that. On the other hand, if you are the kind of person that sits back and complains about every little thing in MN, you aren't making any friends because of your attitude. If you just look at those on this board that are constantly complaining about not making friends and look at their attitude....it's obvious what the issue is....
My relocation package, incentive and bonus - and the conversations that come at least once a quarter with it says otherwise. Retention of talent is a concern for many of the top HQs here. I suppose our attitudes and complaining nature, inability to socialize and make friends, and lack of effort is what leads to our professional success and aggressive recruitment - if so, I will gather my money here and when ready to leave heartily say thank you and chuckle.
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