MN Saloon Downtown St. Paul - Refused Service (sales, live)

[chessgeek]

Originally Posted by Texamichiforniasota

I think you should file a complaint with the AG and Human Rights Commission, but I had a similar situation happen at Bulldog NE in Mpls that wasn't ethnicity related. Minnesota has the most bizarre liquor laws in the Midwest. There must be strict enforcement because every time I order a drink in Minnesota, I get carded, and I'm in my mid-30's and I don't look young for my age.

In the situation at Bulldog, they wouldn't accept my valid out of state license. I was visiting two friends that live in MN who are also in their mid-30's; we were all well dressed, well groomed, and stone cold sober. The waitress said no to me, then I told her to get the manager and he said no as well. My friends said they wanted to cancel their drinks and food and then the manager went and got the book with all the pictures of out of state licenses and then said it was ok, but they would have refused if we weren't persistent.

I think what makes your complaint a strong one is that they treated you and your out-of-state white friend differently. They can't just say that they don't take out of state licenses because the liquor licensing board is cracking down on them, since they let him go in.

Wow, I have not heard about that until now. I wonder what happens when people drive into the TC from communities in Wisconsin that are as close as 25-30 miles away and order a drink. Wisconsin is out of state, too.

Back to the OP. please keep us posted on what happens if you can. Good luck!

[Miker2069]

Originally Posted by chessgeek

I am so glad to hear you have contacted the AG and put it on Facebook. I am sure that place will fire the racist guy that would not let you in and also making changes for the better in the next few weeks. If he poked a finger in your chest while saying that to you or cursed at you, you may have a civil suit. That is considered a threat. Even if not, they will still be forced to clean up their act.

Very surprising to hear this happened in 2014 in a progressive city with at least a third of its population non-white, too. This i ssomething you might expect on seldom occasions in the exurbs, but not St. Paul.

Good for you on the actions you are taking and good luck!

Well interestingly I spoke to the "owner" and he said I can let whoever I want to in and was fairly smug about it.

[chessgeek]

Originally Posted by Miker2069

Well interestingly I spoke to the "owner" and he said I can let whoever I want to in and was fairly smug about it.

I guess he has a strong desire to have the saloon shut down entirely then. That is what will happen if he makes decisions by his bigotry fueled emotions rather than common sense and decency. The owner is being his own worst enemy.

A slam dunk lawsuit in your favor seems more possible now if you desire to go that route. I assume your friend will vouch for you, too. I have a feeling one stern visit from the authorities (both human relations and a couple officers attending) telling the owner the realities of life in the year 2014 may change his mind, though.

[StilltheSame]

Originally Posted by chessgeek

I guess he has a strong desire to have the saloon shut down entirely then. That is what will happen if he makes decisions by his bigotry fueled emotions rather than common sense and decency. The owner is being his own worst enemy.

A slam dunk lawsuit in your favor seems more possible now if you desire to go that route. I assume your friend will vouch for you, too. I have a feeling one stern visit from the authorities (both human relations and a couple officers attending) telling the owner the realities of life in the year 2014 may change his mind, though.

Well said Chess.

[omaraz]

Wow this is not good Mike, I've heard some sketchy things about this place and I hope that you do follow up with the state. This is just unacceptable and a horrible way to run a business. Please do keep us posted your situation.

[jzeig104]

Originally Posted by Miker2069

I've posted on Yelp and Facebook. So far the other reviews on yelp are pretty dis-favorable as well.

I'm going to notify the Attorney General of MN office, just so they can add it to their docket of information on this company.

I appreciate the sentiments and I know that is the overall feeling of most here in the city. I'm waiting for things to warm up so I can enjoy some of the many nice sites, waterfalls, streams, etc. that I've heard so much about. I'm here for about 6 months so looking forward to that.

By the way (off topic) be sure to go to the Como Park Conservatory at the Como Zoo. You wont have to wait for spring to see something cool in MN that will take your mind off winter!

[RTDatx]

Interesting. Just was in Minneapolis for a week in aug '13 and I'm black and in a interracial marriage and we went to several bars in St. Paul and Minneapolis and not one single issue, although MN saloon wasn't one we went too. We drove up to Duluth and spend a full day near Lake Superior and just had an outstanding experience. We also had no issue getting drinks with our TX id's. I live in Texas, so contact with racist situations is not new to me. We felt comfortable in all the restaurants, parks, tourists areas, chain of lakes and enjoyed the TC very much. I have experience a refusal of service in good ol boy north central fl, i filed a complaint with the attorney generals office, and local civil rights office. Needless to say, I was offered an undisclosed monetary sum from the establishment. The money isn't important,It was the principal, I didn't want this to happen to anyone else.

The most important thing you can do in situations like this is exposure via reporting to your local state agencies and in some cases you need to have a good trustworthy attorney on your side.

[StilltheSame]

Originally Posted by RTDatx

Interesting. Just was in Minneapolis for a week in aug '13 and I'm black and in a interracial marriage and we went to several bars in St. Paul and Minneapolis and not one single issue, although MN saloon wasn't one we went too. We drove up to Duluth and spend a full day near Lake Superior and just had an outstanding experience. We also had no issue getting drinks with our TX id's. I live in Texas, so contact with racist situations is not new to me. We felt comfortable in all the restaurants, parks, tourists areas, chain of lakes and enjoyed the TC very much. I have experience a refusal of service in good ol boy north central fl, i filed a complaint with the attorney generals office, and local civil rights office. Needless to say, I was offered an undisclosed monetary sum from the establishment. The money isn't important,It was the principal, I didn't want this to happen to anyone else.

The most important thing you can do in situations like this is exposure via reporting to your local state agencies and in some cases you need to have a good trustworthy attorney on your side.

Interracial marriages and families are nothing new to MN. In fact, I think the Cities may rank as #1 in Interrecial marriages or relationsihips. I woudl submit that is why the posters and those that know and live in this area are outraged by the service OP received. It does not in any manner represent the Cities.

[golfgal]

Originally Posted by StilltheSame

Interracial marriages and families are nothing new to MN. In fact, I think the Cities may rank as #1 in Interrecial marriages or relationsihips. I woudl submit that is why the posters and those that know and live in this area are outraged by the service OP received. It does not in any manner represent the Cities.

[MN-Born-n-Raised]

Originally Posted by Miker2069

Well interestingly I spoke to the "owner" and he said I can let whoever I want to in and was fairly smug about it.

As you have already started, I would post all kinds of stories on the net such as Yelp, FB, etc. Then please print off these reviews and bring in the owner a copy. Explain to them that you have all kinds of energy to post more and more. Be smug about it. Explain how you are planning on putting up flyers near his restaurant to help educate the public. See how long his smugness hangs on before he gets angry. Stick to the facts.

Yes. Things like this happen like this in 2014. I was at Sams Club yesterday and got a free sample. I made small talk with a demo person. She reluctantly told me a story that really bothered her. A 5-6 year old black girl asked for a free sample and her mom o.k. it. She was demoing a BBQ sandwich. The little girls told the demo lady "I really love these sandwiches" while I tall white guy said "I bet you do!". He reached over the head of the patiently waiting young girl who was 1st in line and took the last sample before she reacted.

Disclaimer: this happened in Surprise AZ and not MN. But racism is alive and well. I just wish I would have heard that comment personally so I could have straightened him out.