2014 high school rankings via USNews (St. Paul, Eden Prairie: credit, transfer, best schools)

[Stillnew]

Top Minnesota High Schools | Best High Schools | US News - US News


So I'm curious ...are these new ranking reflective of reality in Minnesota? Is EP no longer a good school district?

[Stillnew]

USNews vs Washington Post school rankings report ?

Minnesota high schools buried in US News list of nation's best - Rick Kupchella's - BringMeTheNews.com

[TxTnVtMn]

I think you have to review the methodology closely and decide whether it reflects what you value in a school.

Participation rates in AP and IB exams seem to play a very big role. This strikes me as blunt measurement which could easily distort what is in fact a much more complex question.

[ellysbelly]

This is my take on it: ultimately all ranking systems for schools are inherently flawed to varying extents. Something as complex and multifaceted as education can't truly be boiled down to objective criteria such as test scores (despite what our legislature might think, but I digress), ratings and rankings-- directionally, yes, most of the 'great' schools are in fact excellent and churn out performing students-- but a school that isn't ranked highly or ranked at all can still by many measures be excellent. What it comes down to is that the rankings are dependent on the criteria they use, the weighting of each metric, as well as an attempt to somehow transfer subjective opinion of what's 'best' into objective ranks. Plus, if the rankings never wavered how would they sell magazines? Long story short, I highly doubt that EP is vastly different (if at all different) from when it was highly ranked-- the school likely didn't change, the weighting/criteria used likely did.

[golfgal]

I agree--this is a very flawed study that just shows how many AP tests are taken compared to the number of kids in the school. Larger schools are at a disadvantage because of that. It doesn't even really measure how well students do, just how many tests taken. The so called "top" schools nationally require all of their students to take an AP test, so they are "good". Don't put any stock in this particular survey.

Also, by AP time senior year, kids know where they are going to college and a lot of seniors don't take any or all of their AP tests because most of the better colleges don't give credit for AP's any longer or it's just used for placement and very few colleges take any AP credits in your major so, if someone is going to major in Math, taking the BC Calc test is just a waste of time/money because it doesn't count for anything.

And..some schools have just stopped sending data because it's just a worthless ranking all the way around...just looking at some of the results....there is NO WAY a school like South St. Paul would ever rank higher that Eden Prairie

[ellysbelly]

You can view ratings and reviews (but not rankings) at GreatSchools - Public and Private School Ratings, Reviews and Parent Community and BOTH ratings and rankings here: SchoolDigger.com - the Easy Way to Evaluate K-12 School Performance (direct link to MN elementary school rankings: Best Schools in Minnesota - MN School Rankings)

[emcee squared]

The top schools seem to reflect AP/IB tests, which I believe is a flawed methodology.

I say: worthless

[Mason3000]

It's all about the methodology & what you want the data to say isn't it? GG wants the data to say that city schools are horrible & only 2nd-3rd ring suburban schools are good. She looks for ways to present the data as such & scare parents away from living in the city. People like me want to see city schools do well & present a different viewpoint to parents looking at city schools.

That said, I think GG makes some damn good points about methodology. Still, there's no reason a parent should be scared to send their kids to a school like Mpls SW or St Paul Central if the parents are involved & they have a good student. It's proven that the student will achieve equally at either the suburban or inner-city school.

I also think a school that inherits a bunch of economically/academically privileged kids & simply maintains the academic level they inherit isn't doing anything particularly great. i.e. I have a friend who teaches at Mounds View. He loves it. Says it's the easiest job in the world. The kids come to him as great students, no problems at home, no second language issues, etc. All he has to do is show up, drink coffee & the kids succeed so he looks like a hero. Conversely, I have a friend who teaches at Richfield. He's dealing with a lot of English second language kids & lower income family's. What really jazzes him up about teaching is taking a kid who's a 1 on a 1-10 scale & teaching them up to a 3.5 on a 1-10 scale. Who's the better teacher, which is the better school? Shouldn't academic progress be an integral part of what defines a school as "good"?

Bottom line is there are a lot of different ways to look at public education & what defines a good school. reading the posts here it's clear there are parents coming to this forum that are looking for exactly what GG is giving them & there are parents who want to live in the city, who're wondering how to navigate the public schools & I give them what they need to know. To each their own.

[golfgal]

Originally Posted by IIll11

There are many places in the U.S. like Los Angeles that would love to have the public school options that are found in the Twin Cities metro area.

I think that is what most people don't understand when they move here is it's really hard to find a bad school here but if you look at other major metro areas, you have a handful of "good" schools and the rest you want to stay away from....just read the other city boards here and you will see what I mean.

[michgc]

Originally Posted by golfgal

I agree--this is a very flawed study that just shows how many AP tests are taken compared to the number of kids in the school. Larger schools are at a disadvantage because of that. It doesn't even really measure how well students do, just how many tests taken. The so called "top" schools nationally require all of their students to take an AP test, so they are "good". Don't put any stock in this particular survey.

This isn't quite true regarding the methodology of the US News and World Report study. The Washington Post survey looks only at how many AP or IB tests were taken. And that's a joke in my mind. But the study discussed here (US New) goes into a bit further detail - not perfect methodology for measuring "best schools" for sure - but better than the Washington Post. If you read here, US News details their methodology. How U.S. News Calculated the 2014 Best High Schools Rankings - US News

They take a 3-step approach:

First they cut the whole sample of all high schools down to high schools with a certain number of 12th graders and enough data to use in comparison.

1. Then they narrow it down to schools that have test scores in math and reading on the state's tests better than the state's average.

2. Then they narrow it down to schools that have test scores for underprivileged students in math and reading on state tests better than the state average.

3. If you made it through the first two cuts, the remaining schools are judged on college readiness - percentage of students that take at least one AB or IP exam (based on what is more popular at a particular school) and the percentage in the school that pass at least one AP or IB exam. The former was given a weight of 25% and the latter a weight of 75%.

As for the top schools requiring their students to take the AP exam, most of them are top magnet schools, and if you look at the results, they mostly all have a 100% pass rate which is weighted more than participation.

One possible flaw might be from the data they get from the states or school districts. We discussed it on the Raleigh board is that some of our top schools have students take their math exams in 8th grade rather than 9th leaving only the lower-performing students taking them in 9th grade. Those students have a low pass rate and that seems to be what US News is using just the 9th grade data for some of our schools as that's how it's reported in NC.