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So as many on this board are familiar with the various programs available for identified gifted and talented kids, I would really appreciate it if you could share your thoughts and experiences with the various Minnesota school districts' gifted education approach. And for those who've had kids or have experienced themselves a gifted program in Minneapolis was it helpful and/or worth it? Or do you think that grade acceleration might be a better approach?
I personally have very mixed feelings about gifted programs but yet cannot deny that peer accomplishment affects individual achievement. And then with so many incredible public opportunities in MN, like the IB programs and the ability to take Univ. Of Minnesota college courses whilst in high-school I'm wondering if my focus on a districts gifted programs might be unwarranted?
So as many on this board are familiar with the various programs available for identified gifted and talented kids, I would really appreciate it if you could share your thoughts and experiences with the various Minnesota school districts' gifted education approach. And for those who've had kids or have experienced themselves a gifted program in Minneapolis was it helpful and/or worth it? Or do you think that grade acceleration might be a better approach?
I personally have very mixed feelings about gifted programs but yet cannot deny that peer accomplishment affects individual achievement. And then with so many incredible public opportunities in MN, like the IB programs and the ability to take Univ. Of Minnesota college courses whilst in high-school I'm wondering if my focus on a districts gifted programs might be unwarranted?
Most G/T programs, especially at the elementary level are extras for kids an not always pull out programs or are pull-out for a few hours/week. From my experience, the G/T label is more for the parents vs the kids and the kids that really excel in school do so without the G/T classes. It's really not something of "focus" on but if your child enjoys them, great. Like we have said on many other of your threads, you are going to find that the schools here on the whole are much better than what you have experienced elsewhere. You are over thinking this process.
Most G/T programs, especially at the elementary level are extras for kids an not always pull out programs or are pull-out for a few hours/week. From my experience, the G/T label is more for the parents vs the kids and the kids that really excel in school do so without the G/T classes. It's really not something of "focus" on but if your child enjoys them, great. Like we have said on many other of your threads, you are going to find that the schools here on the whole are much better than what you have experienced elsewhere. You are over thinking this process.
Actually, my personal experience has been in schools and counties that rank higher than MN...as a child myself and now my kids..our move to MN is not by choice.
Each district has a different approach...from what I've read Minnetonka caters to exceptionally gifted with their Navigator program while EP and Apple-Valley consider the individual needs of all gifted (not all progress linearly)...EP will start to have all-gifted classrooms (mosaic) soon whilst Woodbury already has that in place with their Gateway program. Yet what one reads about is not necessarily what is in place...(my kids are currently in a district which had more high schools in the top 100 of uSNEWs rankings...and yet I'm still appalled at the elementary education and their approach to gifted students).
GG, Perhaps you are assuming too much on my end...because of my minority status declaration? I don't know I'd hate to think so but I can't understand why you've been so snarky ever since I began to politely inquire about MN...I don't think I ever tried to insult anyone as you often do.
Still, if you have personal experience with a gifted program in MN, either yourself or your kids I'd love to hear about it. And maybe possibly refrain from trying to read my mind if possible. My questions are pretty straightforward...no ulterior motives other than trying to widen my perspective.
Of course it goes without saying that everyone on the internet is gifted...nonetheless I'd love to read some opinions that stem from actual experience not just observations.
Agreed. If a kid is challenged, learning, and happy, labels and the latest and greatest curriculum methods don't mean much.
Exactly, if a kid is challenged...many a gifted child do not get sufficiently challenged and so boredom leads them astray...some gifted programs are challenging and some are not..I know the IB program is a rigorous course that is/was often self-directed (lots of research presentations) from what I can remember (30 odd years ago) but IB is not available at the elementary level in MN (correct me if I'm wrong)...the upside to being bored is an exceptionally gifted student can then mature socially and learn to fit in..
Actually, my personal experience has been in schools and counties that rank higher than MN...as a child myself and now my kids..our move to MN is not by choice.
Each district has a different approach...from what I've read Minnetonka caters to exceptionally gifted with their Navigator program while EP and Apple-Valley consider the individual needs of all gifted (not all progress linearly)...EP will start to have all-gifted classrooms (mosaic) soon whilst Woodbury already has that in place with their Gateway program. Yet what one reads about is not necessarily what is in place...(my kids are currently in a district which had more high schools in the top 100 of uSNEWs rankings...and yet I'm still appalled at the elementary education and their approach to gifted students).
GG, Perhaps you are assuming too much on my end...because of my minority status declaration? I don't know I'd hate to think so but I can't understand why you've been so snarky ever since I began to politely inquire about MN...I don't think I ever tried to insult anyone as you often do.
Still, if you have personal experience with a gifted program in MN, either yourself or your kids I'd love to hear about it. And maybe possibly refrain from trying to read my mind if possible. My questions are pretty straightforward...no ulterior motives other than trying to widen my perspective.
Of course it goes without saying that everyone on the internet is gifted...nonetheless I'd love to read some opinions that stem from actual experience not just observations.
I'm not being snarky, I'm simply pointing out that you have posted this same question about 10 times and like I said, you are going to find that schools here on the whole are much better than you find elsewhere. Yes, there may be a school here or there that is better, but for the metro on the whole, no, you will not find the number of quality schools like this anywhere in the country. I've given you my experience with the G/T programs in our district. The US NEWS report is worthless for rankings but if you want to put stock in that then you need to move to Edina.
Your minority status has no bearing on anything. You say you are upper middle class and the minorities in MN that are upper middle class do just as well as the "white kids". Stay out of most of the Minneapolis and St. Paul schools and you will find your children will be MORE than challenged, have friends of like minds and have abundant opportunities for success if they so choose to take advantage of those opportunities.
The point you are missing is that you don't NEED your children to be in the G/T programs to be challenged in most of the schools in the metro area. Looking at my kids classes from high school, kids in the 20-30th % raking are STILL scoring above 30 on the ACT, none of those kids would have been in the "G/T" programs...but then again, some of the kids in the G/T programs couldn't score above a 25. The labels are meaningless really. It's all what YOUR child does with that.
Repeating our experience.....the G/T program was not a pull out program but an integration with the regular classrooms where the district G/T coordinator worked with the various teachers to develop a separate curriculum for the G/T kids in the classroom. The G/T were seated near other G/T in the class and when they worked on projects or homework, they had separate yet similar work and homework. They had various clubs and activities after school they, or anyone, could participate in if they wanted to further any learning in an interest area. The Destination Imagination teams make it to nations 9 years out of 10. The Science Olympiad teams are the same. The music programs are second to none in the region and one of the top in the nation. They have a full compliment of AP classes along with the CIS program, PESO, etc. Athletics at their school and across the district are national caliber programs, they have some of the best debate and speech programs in the nation in the district. The Quiz Bowl and Knowledge Bowl teams at our school have qualified for nationals every year for the past how many years???? There are kids every year that are national math and science finalists---very few of whom were actually in the G/T programs actually--our son being one of them. Other kids go on to win national competitions in writing. What more do you want??
Rinse, repeat at just about every suburban metro school. You need to come visit these schools before the year is out, see what fits your children's needs the best because what works for your kids may not be what other people have. Again, you are comparing schools that are within .001% of each other in "quality"....and, you could do all this work to focus on the G/T programs and then, what happens if your child doesn't make the grade to get in??? Our kids have classmates that have scored 5's on 27 or more AP tests and finished "high school" math by 8th grade and were taking math classes via MIT by 10th grade...our kids had an 11 year old in their BC Calc class....which is another bonus to our schools, with the schools all being right next to each other, the SUPER smart kids can move between the buildings to take classes as needed. There are generally a few kids from the middle school each year taking advanced math classes at the high school, for example.
Show me where and how I've asked "this question" 10 times? "This question" being a request for sharing of personal experiences in a gifted program in MN? Every suburban metro is different as they implement different strategies. And you keep saying how great MN is but yet it does not seem to fare well in nationwide rankings irrespective if methodology. As for MN having top ACT/SAT scores...anyone can study for a test and master with enough preparation. Guess I should have asked for a comparison of hockey programs instead... Or clearly no one has any personal experience with gifted programs other than a token few.
Show me where and how I've asked "this question" 10 times? "This question" being a request for sharing of personal experiences in a gifted program in MN? Every suburban metro is different as they implement different strategies. And you keep saying how great MN is but yet it does not seem to fare well in nationwide rankings irrespective if methodology. As for MN having top ACT/SAT scores...anyone can study for a test and master with enough preparation. Guess I should have asked for a comparison of hockey programs instead... Or clearly no one has any personal experience with gifted programs other than a token few.
No, you can't really just study to master....you still have to have exposure to the information and a base level intelligence to be able to score well...and since the ACT and the SAT are used to admit students to colleges, and they are the same tests given nationally, it's really the only real measure out there to compare schools nationally.
There just are not a lot of posters here with elementary students in the specific schools you are asking about. It's a big metro with over 3,000,000 people. As for the methodology for the US World report, it is very flawed and anyone in the know will tell you that. How many AP tests students take has ZERO bearing on the quality of the school. All a school has to do is require kids take at least one AP test and they are in the top 10% of schools nationally. Now, those kids could all get 1's on the tests, but hey, they are a "top" school. Do you really want to put stock in something THAT meaningless???? Edina has 100% graduation rate and a 95% matriculation rate to 4 year colleges, most of the suburban metro districts have stats that are just about the same. THOSE numbers matter, along with the ACT/SAT scores.
MN Ranks #1---the biggest, most meaningful national comparison for school quality
Texas ranks #47
Oregon is up there at 33rd
It's not even close....the average scores in Texas and Oregon wouldn't even get a student admitted to most colleges in MN or ANY of the top 600 or so colleges nationally.....
No, you can't really just study to master....you still have to have exposure to the information and a base level intelligence to be able to score well...and since the ACT and the SAT are used to admit students to colleges, and they are the same tests given nationally, it's really the only real measure out there to compare schools nationally...
Sorry, I'm not a big fan if standardized tests as an indicator of IQ... And again, I'm not asking about how well a school does on rankings..I'm asking for personal experiences with the various gifted programs at an elementary level available in the metro-Minneapolis area. Programs do differ from district to district and are unevenly implemented in schools.
I don't think a high score on the SAT/ACT says much about a school/district if that school is predominately (over 85%) white with a poverty level less than 5%....
"I will need two pieces of identification."
"Ah yes. I have my temporary driver's license - and - my astronaut application form... I didn't pass that though, I failed everything but the date of birth."
Sorry, I'm not a big fan if standardized tests as an indicator of IQ... And again, I'm not asking about how well a school does on rankings..I'm asking for personal experiences with the various gifted programs at an elementary level available in the metro-Minneapolis area. Programs do differ from district to district and are unevenly implemented in schools.
I don't think a high score on the SAT/ACT says much about a school/district if that school is predominately (over 85%) white with a poverty level less than 5%....
"I will need two pieces of identification."
"Ah yes. I have my temporary driver's license - and - my astronaut application form... I didn't pass that though, I failed everything but the date of birth."
Who said anything about IQ? None of those tests have anything to do with IQ other than the base of needing a reasonable IQ to be able to master the information. What it DOES show is the end result of 11 years of education through a system though....showing that even the kids outside of the "G/T" program are doing VERY well and being challenged in the schools. Demographics of the schools are what they are and it shows that they are educating their schools. You are putting WAY, WAY too much stock in the color of someone's skin....economic status is FAR more important....and, since you are of "above average" economic status, your experience for your children is going to be closer to that 85% vs that 5%. Looking at the "minority" kids from our kids' high school they are currently at Harvard, MIT, Berkeley, Notre Dame, IT at the U of MN, Purdue (engineering), etc, etc etc.....your point is???
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