Snelling Ave crosswalks (Marshall, Cleveland: college, live, dangerous)

[cielpur]

A very sad story in the news recently was the two Macalester students who were hit by a car on Snelling Ave in a crosswalk - it sounds like one of the students remains in critical condition.

I drive on this street every now and then and have found the crosswalks confusing. There are only the painted white blocks on the ground and no crosswalk sign or "stop for pedestrian" sign is present. Most cars do not stop for pedestrians here. However, a recent star tribune article indicated that all cars are required to stop for pedestrians in crosswalks on the street.

Any thoughts on this area? It seems simple signs could improve clarity for drivers and pedestrians alike. In winter, for instance, how are cars even supposed to know it is a crosswalk if there is snow on the ground covering the paint?

Given the speed and volume of traffic on Snelling, I think having all cars stop whenever a pedestrian is present could present hazards of its own - especially since there are two lanes in each direction. Something needs to change here, though, so accidents like this can be prevented. They are inevitable when the rules are not clearly communicated.

[Mplsite]

Snelling needs to be traffic calmed, pure and simple. Right now, it is designed for this to happen over and over again. It's strange, because the U of M campus in St Paul near Cleveland and Como has traffic coming southbound from the north entrance expected to respect a 20 MPH speed limit: all along a farm with no one around. Yet on one of the most traveled streets in St Paul with pedestrians and cyclists all over no such limit exists. Perhaps the U of M values students' lives more than Macalester? In any case, St Paul needs to step up and do something if the county won't protect the students whose money finds its way into the city by choosing to attend this particular college (I believe Snelling's a county road). Funny how the incident was referred to as an "accident". It is not an accident by definition in the design of the road which guarantees deadly speeds among vulnerable users and it's not an accident when a driver chooses to drive recklessly.

I really don't see what's so confusing about this crosswalk: it's a standard one with an additional "barrier" median as a safe szone for those halfway across. The sign's got the image of a stick figure walking and there's a big blocked out area highlighting the crosswalk on the street itself. I'd simply suggest look straight forward where you're driving or better yet: don't.

[cielpur]

Yes, there is a sign at that particular crosswalk, but not the others if I recall correctly. Even at that one, though, where there is a sign, most cars do NOT stop. I would say lights and a clear "STOP FOR PEDESTRIANS" is needed since many are unaware of how designated crosswalks work. That, or a sign on the sidewalk that warns pedestrians not to attempt to cross there at all when traffic is present.

And yes, Snelling is a county road. I'm not sure myself how that affects the issue but I would agree that hopefully there is a solution that quells dangerous traffic on the street.

It would not be fair to place any blame on Macalester for this since it really doesn't have much authority on the issue - if it were up to the college, I'm sure this would have been fixed already. The U has much more clout to effect greater influence for things like this, I would guess. I would also guess that it's easier to put a lower speed limit on less heavily traveled streets compared to the most heavily traveled streets in the city. Perhaps it's best not to have any crosswalks on such a street without stoplights controlling car traffic.

[Yosh01]

I drive these streets all the time and always make a point of stopping for pedestrians in crosswalks, but only when there is one lane of traffic. I have seen too many close calls caused by a car stopping in one lane only to have another pass by in the other lane narrowly missing the pedestrian. I've even tried honking and waving my arm to alert the passing driver but most drivers are too aggressive to bother with caution.

The two Mac students were hit in this kind of situation. It's simply too dangerous to stop and set up pedestrians for a crash. I'll risk the ticket before I stop.

[chaturvedi.ankit]

Might sound harsh but as pedestrian we should always keep our eyes open while crossing...wait for car to stop completely , never assume that a car is slowing down so he/she will stop what if its a teen driver learning to drive and presses the accelerator instead of the break at the last moment..

I have a kid and i make sure that car is stopped and waiting for me to cross !!

[cielpur]

I think that's a given, but as Yosh pointed out, multi-lane streets present the opportunity for pedestrians to be injured no matter how careful they are (e.g., a car behind the stopped car that abruptly passes it). I agree Yosh, it's not worth stopping here despite the law.

[iNviNciBL3]

Originally Posted by cielpur

I think that's a given, but as Yosh pointed out, multi-lane streets present the opportunity for pedestrians to be injured no matter how careful they are (e.g., a car behind the stopped car that abruptly passes it). I agree Yosh, it's not worth stopping here despite the law.

I can easily cross a multi lane street like snelling without getting hit.

[rzzz]

The crosswalks on Snelling behind Macalester are set up like flashing light, look out for peds crosswalks but don't have flashing lights. I think one of them has a ped crossing sign, but the one by Sargent does not. Especially at the latter, peds seem to be confused as to if they have the right of way. Drivers mostly just blaze right through it unless there happens to be heavy traffic.

[spectre000]

Originally Posted by iNviNciBL3

I can easily cross a multi lane street like snelling without getting hit.

Nearly everyone can. Including me. But we're not everyone. The elderly, young, and disabled need better protections. All the situational awareness in the world can't protect people 100% of the time. Nobody should have to risk bodily harm or death trying to cross a street in the middle of a city.

I remember all the crying about the medians put in on Snelling Ave by Grand Ave. So many businesses complained. Afterwards they grudgingly admitted that they did no harm to their business. The same thing occured on Marshall Ave over some new medians there that are going to be placed as well. I love to drive myself. But it's amazing how car centric we Americans are. I think the tide is slowly turning away from the All-Mighty Automobile. But it's going to take a lot more work.